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Groups > comp.theory > #106190
| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 |
| Date | 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400 |
| Organization | i2pn2 (i2pn.org) |
| Message-ID | <v3lont$2uv04$7@i2pn2.org> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <v3i0ri$3cpu7$4@dont-email.me> <v3js08$3q76h$1@dont-email.me> <v3kcod$3stk9$3@dont-email.me> <v3kj9m$3u4o3$1@dont-email.me> <v3l0sq$5d3$3@dont-email.me> |
On 6/3/24 2:09 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/3/2024 9:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-03 12:25:48 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 6/3/2024 2:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-02 14:50:26 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/2/2024 4:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 03.mei.2024 om 15:40 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x) // ptr is pointer to int function
>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>> 03 int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>> 04 if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>> 06 return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>> 09 void main()
>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>> 11 H(D,D);
>>>>>>> 12 }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are examining the behavior of D(D) for every possible H/D pair
>>>>>>> where 1 to N steps of D(D) are simulated by H.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Execution Trace*
>>>>>>> Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D) that simulates D(D)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *keeps repeating* (unless aborted)
>>>>>>> Line 01
>>>>>>> Line 02
>>>>>>> Line 03: simulated D(D) invokes simulated H(D,D) that simulates D(D)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Simulation invariant*
>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own
>>>>>>> line 03.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Linz proof is based on the pathological relation ship that D
>>>>>> contradicts the result of H. This is expressed in lines 04, 05, 06
>>>>>> of D, above.
>>>>>> It is strange that olcott claims that the simulation never sees
>>>>>> the pathological part of D. He now seems to shift the meaning of
>>>>>> pathological to the mere fact that D calls H. Lines 04, 05, and 06
>>>>>> are completely irrelevant.
>>>>>> In fact, any function that calls H now become pathological.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E.G. if we replace D with a function P that only returns its own
>>>>>> Halt_Status:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 01 int P(ptr x)
>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>> 03 int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>> 04
>>>>>> 05
>>>>>> 06 return Halt_Status;
>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then we would normally expect that, because H is required to halt,
>>>>>> P would halt as well. But the simulation of P by H does not halt.
>>>>>> So, P, when it halts, reports that it not halting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem here is, that H is unable to simulate itself to its
>>>>>> final state. That has no relation with the Linz proof, it is a
>>>>>> problem of H.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, there is another *Simulation invariant*
>>>>>> H correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own return.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Already addressed in another reply.
>>>>
>>>> Which reply? The one where you said you made a mistake? Or typo?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am not going to answer the same question from multiple people.
>>
>> Your choice. But you can't keep multiple people from seeing your
>> lack of answer.
>>
>
> This is my canned reply that no one has attempted to refute because
> they know it is irrefutable. When we are analyzing x86 code and
> someone disagrees that is like disagreeing that 2 + 3 = 5.
And you just use your canned reply,b ecause you don't know how to actual
>
> That is why it is essential that I get agreement on the x86/C
> code before moving on to Turing Machines. If they are going to
> lie about arithmetic we cannot trust them with more complex math.
>
> DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
> DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
> DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
But DD DOES HALT!! It has been proven, you just close your eyes to it.
You mean that *this* HH can not simulate DD to a final state. THAT IS
NOT non-halting.
You have been told this, and ignoring, showing your reckless disregard
for the truth that make you just an ignorant pathological liar.
>
> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function in C
> 00 int HH(ptr p, ptr i);
> 01 int DD(ptr p)
> 02 {
> 03 int Halt_Status = HH(p, p);
> 04 if (Halt_Status)
> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
> 06 return Halt_Status;
> 07 }
>
> _DD()
> [00001c22] 55 push ebp
> [00001c23] 8bec mov ebp,esp
> [00001c25] 51 push ecx
> [00001c26] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001c29] 50 push eax ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2a] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001c2d] 51 push ecx ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342 ; call HH
> [00001c33] 83c408 add esp,+08
> [00001c36] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax
> [00001c39] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> [00001c3d] 7402 jz 00001c41
> [00001c3f] ebfe jmp 00001c3f
> [00001c41] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04]
> [00001c44] 8be5 mov esp,ebp
> [00001c46] 5d pop ebp
> [00001c47] c3 ret
> Size in bytes:(0038) [00001c47]
>
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D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 08:40 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-03 17:53 -0400
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 21:32 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 08:55 -0400
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 17:42 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 18:55 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 08:56 -0400
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-03 23:11 -0400
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 19:13 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-03 23:24 -0400
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-03 22:39 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-04 08:59 -0400
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-02 11:50 +0200
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 09:50 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 10:39 +0300
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:25 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 17:17 +0300
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 13:09 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-03 21:47 +0200
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-04 08:19 +0000
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 12:30 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-05 10:05 +0300
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 08:05 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-05 18:07 +0000
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-06 11:07 +0300
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 08:04 -0500
Re: D(D) simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 immibis <news2@immibis.com> - 2024-06-07 16:25 +0200
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