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Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic
Subject Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩
Date 2024-05-27 21:24 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <v33bo5$29def$4@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References (29 earlier) <v33790$8u5p$1@dont-email.me> <v337r0$29dee$2@i2pn2.org> <v338c5$94g8$1@dont-email.me> <v339kr$29dee$3@i2pn2.org> <v33aj7$9f3u$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 5/27/24 9:04 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/27/2024 7:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/27/24 8:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/27/2024 7:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 5/27/24 8:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/27/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/27/24 6:32 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/27/2024 4:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/27/24 3:45 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/2024 11:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/24 12:22 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/2024 10:58 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/24 11:46 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/2024 10:25 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/27/24 11:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00       int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01       int D(ptr p)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 02       {
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 03         int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 04         if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 06         return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07       }
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 09       int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10       {
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11         H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12         return 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13       }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above template refers to an infinite set of H/D pairs 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where D is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly simulated by either pure simulator H or pure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> function H. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was done because many reviewers used the shell game ploy to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> endlessly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch which H/D pair was being referred to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Correct Simulation Defined*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     This is provided because many reviewers had a different 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> notion of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     correct simulation that diverges from this notion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     A simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly emulates 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 to N of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     x86 instructions of D in the order specified by the x86 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     of D. This may include M recursive emulations of H 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulating itself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     emulating D.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And how do you apply that to a TEMPLATE that doesn't define 
>>>>>>>>>>>> what a call H means (as it could be any of the infinite set 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Hs that you can instantiate the template on)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Somehow we got off track of the subject of this thread*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I note that YOU keep on switching between your C program and 
>>>>>>>>>> Turing Machines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Note, per the implications that you implicitly agreed to (by 
>>>>>>>>>> not even trying to refute) the two systems are NOT equivalents 
>>>>>>>>>> of each other.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (1) I think you are wrong. I have not seen any of your
>>>>>>>>> reasoning that was not anchored in false assumptions.
>>>>>>>>> Your make fake rebuttal is to change the subject.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (2) It does not matter my proof is anchored in the Linz
>>>>>>>>> proof and the H/D pairs are only used to have a 100% concrete
>>>>>>>>> basis to perfectly anchor things such as the correct meaning
>>>>>>>>> of D correctly simulated by H so that people cannot get away
>>>>>>>>> with claiming that an incorrect simulation is correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> int main() { D(D); } IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D CORRECTLY 
>>>>>>>>> SIMULATED BY H.
>>>>>>>>> One cannot simply ignore the pathological relationship between 
>>>>>>>>> H and D.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   Ĥ copies its own Turing machine description: ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>>>>   then invokes embedded_H that simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ with ⟨Ĥ⟩ as input.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the purposes of the above analysis we hypothesize that
>>>>>>>>>>> embedded_H is either a UTM or a UTM that has been adapted
>>>>>>>>>>> to stop simulating after a finite number of steps of simulation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And what you do mean by that?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you hypothesize that the original H was just a pure UTM,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The original proof does not consider the notion of a simulating
>>>>>>>>> halt decider so I have to begin the proof at an earlier stage
>>>>>>>>> than any definition of H.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The biggest problem is that the input to the Turing machine 
>>>>>>>> decider H is the description of a Turing Machine H^, which is a 
>>>>>>>> SPECIFIC machine, 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you say "specific machine" you don't mean anything like a
>>>>>>> 100% completely specified sequence of state transitions encoded
>>>>>>> as a single unique finite string.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mostly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There doesn't need to be a unique finite string, but it is a 100% 
>>>>>> completely specified state transition/tape operation table.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words Linz did not prove that there are no set
>>>>> of state transitions specified by ⊢* that derives the
>>>>> correct halt status of ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩.
>>>>>
>>>>> He only said there there is one specific machine that
>>>>> gets the wrong answer.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He STARTS with a proof that one specific (but arbitrary) machine 
>>>> gets the wrong answer.
>>>>
>>>> Then he shows that the same proof can be applied to ANY such machine 
>>>> (becaue the proof didn't depend on any specific details of the 
>>>> machine, just the general properties of that machine)
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't understand how to do categorical proofs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I totally do. Can you please write down the
>>> "completely specified state transition/tape operation table."
>>> of this specific (thus uniquely identifiable) machine I would
>>> really like to see it.
>>>
>>
>> But it was proven that no such machine exists!
>>
>> Remember, the proof starts with the hypothetical that such a machine 
>> exists. Such a machine WOULD HAVE a completely specified state 
>> transition/tape operation table.
>>
> 
> That is not what you said.
>  >>>>> There doesn't need to be a unique finite string, but it is a 100%
>  >>>>> completely specified state transition/tape operation table.
> 
> "a 100% completely specified state transition/tape operation table"
> of a non-existent machine.

Right, by presuming that you have a Turing Machine, you have a completly 
specified state transition/tape operation table.

You may not KNOW what that table is if you don't know what the exact 
machine is, but you know it exists.


> 
>> (The fact you ask the question means you don't understand the method 
>> of proof).
>>
> 
> Socratic questions resulted in you contradicting yourself, exactly as I
> expected. That is how Socratic questions work. When someone contradicts
> themselves they say whoops, lets try again.

Nope. Just shows you don't understand the meaning of the worda.

> 
> A Troll would say: "I never contradicted myself you liar!"
> Socratic questions expose Trolls for all to see.

So, what was the "Lie", tell me or just prove yourself to be the Troll 
liar you are talking about.

Note,

> 
>> Given the assumption of such a machine, we can show how to construct 
>> the H^ machine to test it with.
>>
>> We can then show that, whatever the actual behavior of the machine H, 
>> it will be wrong.
>>
> 
> There is no "whatever the actual behavior" of a specific machine.
> That only applies to a set of implementations of a machine.

???

A given machine has a behavior.

If we don't care about the details of that behavior, we can say WHATEVER 
THAT BEHAVIOR WAS.

You just don't understand how English works.

> 
>> Thus we proved that machine didn't meet the requirements.
>>
> 
> No we actually proved that you were never really talking about
> a single specific machine.

Nope, just that you don't understand what anything means.


> 
>> And, because we didn't use any specific details of that machine, we 
>> can show that we can do the same for ANY machine that might claim to 
>> be a halt decider.
>>
> 
> A set of machines specified by a template have common properties.

Maybe. but the are still different, and thus are not identical.


> 
>> Sort of like the proof that there doesn't exist a highest prime 
>> number, we first presume that there might be, and then show how that 
>> assumption proves itself wrong.
>>
>>
> 
> *Just like when we see that when we know that*
> ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ correctly simulated by embedded_H cannot possibly reach its
> own simulated final state of ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩ and halt in an infinite sequence of
> correctly simulated steps we can see that this also applies to every
> less than infinite (AKA finite) sequence.
> 
> Like mathematical induction in reverse.
> 

Nope. How do you simulate a template? Especially when it gets into the 
variable part?

You never answered that one.

Your logic is just broken.

You can only trace in detail a detail specific machine, which is the 
type of simulation you have defined being done, so it can't be of a 
template, so you claim that it is a template just shows that you have lied.

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Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 12:04 -0500
  Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 21:44 -0400
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 21:22 -0500
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 22:41 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 22:06 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 23:47 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 22:59 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:18 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:57 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:27 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-24 12:46 +0200
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:14 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:52 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:35 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:18 -0400
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:06 -0500
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:25 -0400
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:03 -0500
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:37 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:18 -0400
  Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-24 09:37 +0200
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:10 -0500
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:25 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:01 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:39 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 17:20 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 19:20 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 23:28 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 08:52 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 12:56 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 14:16 -0400
                D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 13:27 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 15:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 14:55 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 16:16 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 15:20 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:04 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:13 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:18 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:29 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:45 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:03 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:36 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:40 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:49 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:52 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:57 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:13 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:36 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:40 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:49 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:53 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:59 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 18:11 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 19:14 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 18:23 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 19:40 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 19:12 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 21:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 19:45 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 21:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 20:47 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:06 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:09 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:18 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:16 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:19 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:03 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:25 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:40 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 07:43 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 09:13 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 12:31 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:01 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 13:16 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:26 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 13:48 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:54 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 14:01 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:11 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 14:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 14:14 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 16:20 -0400
                A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 17:47 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 19:07 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 18:45 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 20:15 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 19:21 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 20:44 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 20:03 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 21:19 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:06 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 22:30 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:53 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:15 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:43 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:05 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 22:17 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:30 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 22:47 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 09:27 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 09:25 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 10:48 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 10:06 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 11:25 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 10:46 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 11:58 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 11:22 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 12:33 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 14:45 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 17:21 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 17:32 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 18:44 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 19:08 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 20:17 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 19:26 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 20:48 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:04 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 21:24 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:39 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 21:54 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:01 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 22:23 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:41 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 22:52 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:59 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 07:34 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 10:20 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-29 11:37 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 08:13 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 19:47 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-30 10:06 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 08:20 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-30 21:37 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-31 16:00 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 10:35 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-31 19:51 +0200
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-01 10:52 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 09:37 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 11:20 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-01 18:52 +0000
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 14:26 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 15:45 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:42 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:21 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-02 15:29 +0200
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 11:01 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:36 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 18:16 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 23:27 +0800
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 13:28 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-03 21:58 +0200
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 14:00 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-03 20:01 +0000
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 16:17 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:36 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:07 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-02 13:23 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 11:07 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:48 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 18:19 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 22:24 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 07:34 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 10:37 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 22:04 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-25 21:09 +0000
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:27 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-26 12:47 +0200
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 08:38 -0500
  Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 12:03 +0300
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:14 -0400
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:16 -0500
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:31 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:07 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:41 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400

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