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Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details
Date 2024-06-03 14:00 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <v3l3rm$tom$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (28 earlier) <v3h7pv$38up4$1@dont-email.me> <v3hrlk$3bkv5$3@dont-email.me> <v3jt7u$3qf1g$1@dont-email.me> <v3kdbg$3stk9$4@dont-email.me> <v3kmo4$3umuf$1@dont-email.me>

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On 6/3/2024 10:16 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-06-03 12:36:00 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 6/3/2024 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-02 13:21:56 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 6/2/2024 2:42 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-01 19:26:55 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/1/2024 1:52 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Sat, 01 Jun 2024 09:37:01 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 6/1/2024 2:52 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-31 15:35:18 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *A quick summary of the reasoning provided below*
>>>>>>>>>> The LHS is behavior that embedded_H is allowed to report on.
>>>>>>>>> There is no restrictions on what embedded_H is allowed to 
>>>>>>>>> report on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> embedded_H is only allowed to report on the behavior that its 
>>>>>>>> finite
>>>>>>>> string Turing Machine Description specifies to a UTM.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> embedded_H <is> a UTM except that it stops simulating and reports
>>>>>>>> non-halting as soon as it correctly recognizes a non-halting 
>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>> pattern that is specified by its input.
>>>>>>> "Except". So it is not an UTM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (d) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (e) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ invokes simulated embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (f) simulated embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (g) goto (d)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> embedded_H is not allowed to be applied to Ĥ ⟨Ĥ⟩ because inputs can
>>>>>>>> only be finite strings and Ĥ is not a finite string. This means
>>>>>>>> that embedded_H is not allowed to report on its own actual 
>>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>> I can't read that notation. What is H^ and what does it look like?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Here is the whole Linz proof*
>>>>>> I simplified the Linz notation at the bottom of page 2 of the proof.
>>>>>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> You are right, that is a sufficient proof. You may change the 
>>>>> presentation
>>>>> but then you must prove that your presentation is equivalent to Linz'.
>>>>
>>>> The proof was removed until Joe could understand what Linz was saying
>>>> Here is my actual proof.
>>>
>>> Linz' proof is Linz' proof, not yours.
>>>
>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>
>>> The above does not say what Linz said and hardly anything else, either.
>>> It is not a sentence. If you remove the second last or the last line
>>> or add some conjunction between them and add a point to the end then
>>> you would have a sentence.
>>>
>>>> (a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>> (b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>> (c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>> (d) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>> (e) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ invokes simulated embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>> (f) simulated embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>> (g) goto (d)
>>>>
>>>> Linz H applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ derives a different result than
>>>> embedded_H applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant as embedded_H is not a part of Linz' proof. The part
>>> of Linz' Ĥ that corresponds to your embedded_H does produce the
>>> same result as Linz H does.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf top of page 3
>> Linz named his embedded_H "Ĥq0" and has input Wm Wm
>> because this is a second start state in the same machine
>> Ben agrees that the Linz notation is wrong.
> 
> I don't know (and don't expect to find out with a reasonable effort)
> whay Linz uses the notation he uses. It does not really matter as
> the meaning is clear from the text. You may use a better notation if
> you know one but constructing a good notation is not easy. As a
> test case you may cosider pair of Turing machines that are otherwise
> identical but start at different states.
> 

Ben agreed that the Linz notation is wrong back in 2017.
The above is my latest draft. embedded_H <is> a copy of
Linz H embedded in the middle of Linz Ĥ.

>>> Turns out that you can prove that the result produced by Linz' H is
>>> different from the result produced by linz' H. This is sufficient to
>>> prove that Linz' H does not exist.
>>>
>>>> This is because the in the latter case embedded_H must determine that
>>>> ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ correctly simulated by embedded_H cannot possibly stop running
>>>> after 1 to ∞ steps of correct simulation. Thus (as we can all see) 
>>>> embedded_H meets its abort simulation criteria.
>>>
>>> Those criteria are not mentioned in Linz' proof and are therefore
>>> irrelevant to it.
>>>
>>
>> They are not mentioned because like everyone else Linz rejects
>> the notion of a simulating halt decider out-of-hand without review.
> 
> The topic is halt deciders, not simulating halt deciders. If a

Actually for a few years now that topic <is> simulating halt deciders.
I am the only one that ever bothered to think this through.

> simulating halt decider is a halt decider then eerything that
> is true about all halt deciders is true about all simulating
> halt deciders. 

No that is false. The details of the behavior of the simulated
input do not apply to any decider that does not simulate its input.

> The proof that the set of halt deciders is empty

Completely ignores that for a simulating halt decider the place
where the input contradicts its return value is unreachable.

> clearly prves the the set of simulating halt deciders is a
> subset of an empty set (or the empty set, as there is only one).
> 
>> When you look for "simulating halt decider" or
>> "simulating termination analyzer" you only find me.
> 
> Apparently people do not find subsets of the empty set
> very interessting.
> 

People are so sure that I must be wrong that they do not notice
that no one found any actual mistakes.

The only "mistake" that anyone ever pointed out is essentially
"that's not the way that I memorized it".

When the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH is not
the same as the behavior of the directly executed DD(DD)
they assume the simulation must be wrong even though it
it an easily verified fact that it is correct.

Mike Terry IS STILL DOING THIS.

Mike Terry said the the simulation that was proven to be correct is
incorrect because he didn't like the HH code that produced this proven
correct simulation.

On 5/30/2024 3:51 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CS8CcnRadHexfe8X7nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d%40brightview.co.uk%3E+
Message-ID: <S8CcnRadHexfe8X7nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT

typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
00       int HH(ptr p, ptr i);
01       int DD(ptr p)
02       {
03         int Halt_Status = HH(p, p);
04         if (Halt_Status)
05           HERE: goto HERE;
06         return Halt_Status;
07       }

_DD()
[00001c22] 55         push ebp
[00001c23] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00001c25] 51         push ecx
[00001c26] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00001c29] 50         push eax        ; push DD 1c22
[00001c2a] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00001c2d] 51         push ecx        ; push DD 1c22
[00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342   ; call HH
[00001c33] 83c408     add esp,+08
[00001c36] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
[00001c39] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
[00001c3d] 7402       jz 00001c41
[00001c3f] ebfe       jmp 00001c3f
[00001c41] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
[00001c44] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
[00001c46] 5d         pop ebp
[00001c47] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0038) [00001c47]




-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 12:04 -0500
  Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 21:44 -0400
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 21:22 -0500
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 22:41 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 22:06 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-23 23:47 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 22:59 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:18 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:57 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:27 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-24 12:46 +0200
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:14 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:52 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:35 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:18 -0400
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:06 -0500
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:25 -0400
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:03 -0500
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:37 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:18 -0400
  Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-24 09:37 +0200
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:10 -0500
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:25 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:01 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:39 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 17:20 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 19:20 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 23:28 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 08:52 -0400
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 12:56 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 14:16 -0400
                D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 13:27 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 15:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 14:55 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 16:16 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 15:20 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:04 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:13 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:18 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:29 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 17:45 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:03 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:36 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:40 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:49 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:52 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:57 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:13 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:36 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:40 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:49 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 17:53 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 18:59 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 18:11 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 19:14 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 18:23 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 19:40 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 19:12 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 21:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 19:45 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 21:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 20:47 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:06 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:09 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:18 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:16 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:19 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:03 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-25 22:25 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 21:40 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 07:43 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 09:13 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Dishonest? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 12:31 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:01 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 13:16 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:26 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 13:48 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 12:54 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 14:01 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:11 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 14:23 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 14:14 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 --- Linz Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 16:20 -0400
                A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 17:47 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 19:07 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 18:45 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 20:15 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 19:21 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 20:44 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 20:03 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 21:19 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:06 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 22:30 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:53 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:15 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 21:43 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:05 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 22:17 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-26 23:30 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 22:47 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 09:27 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 09:25 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 10:48 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 10:06 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 11:25 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 10:46 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 11:58 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 11:22 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 12:33 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 14:45 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 17:21 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 17:32 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 18:44 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 19:08 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 20:17 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 19:26 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 20:48 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:04 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 21:24 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:39 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 21:54 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:01 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 22:23 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:41 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-27 22:52 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 21:59 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 07:34 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 10:20 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-29 11:37 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 08:13 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-29 19:47 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-30 10:06 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 08:20 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-30 21:37 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-31 16:00 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 10:35 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-31 19:51 +0200
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-01 10:52 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 09:37 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 11:20 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-01 18:52 +0000
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 14:26 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 15:45 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:42 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:21 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-02 15:29 +0200
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 11:01 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:36 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 18:16 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 23:27 +0800
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 13:28 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-03 21:58 +0200
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 14:00 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-03 20:01 +0000
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 16:17 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:36 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:07 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-02 13:23 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 11:07 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:48 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 18:19 +0300
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ -- key details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 22:24 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 07:34 -0400
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 10:37 -0500
                Re: A simulating halt decider applied to the The Peter Linz Turing Machine description ⟨Ĥ⟩ Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-28 22:04 -0400
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-05-25 21:09 +0000
                Re: D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly reach its, own line 06 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:27 -0500
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-26 12:47 +0200
                Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 08:38 -0500
  Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-24 12:03 +0300
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 07:14 -0400
    Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:16 -0500
      Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 13:31 -0400
        Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 15:07 -0500
          Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 17:03 -0400
            Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 16:41 -0500
              Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-24 18:17 -0400

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