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Groups > comp.theory > #105273
| From | Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts |
| Date | 2024-05-20 11:08 +0300 |
| Organization | - |
| Message-ID | <v2f0dk$3ssf8$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <v2aehu$2qsgt$2@dont-email.me> <v2ckon$3bc16$1@dont-email.me> <v2crno$3cifp$2@dont-email.me> <v2cvlk$3de7m$1@dont-email.me> <v2d0jd$3ddo5$2@dont-email.me> |
On 2024-05-19 13:59:09 +0000, olcott said:
> On 5/19/2024 8:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-05-19 12:36:08 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 5/19/2024 5:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-18 14:38:53 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/18/2024 4:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-17 15:55:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/17/2024 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-17 07:25:52 +0000, Fred. Zwarts said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Op 17.mei.2024 om 03:15 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> The following is self-evidently true on the basis of the
>>>>>>>>>> semantics of the C programming language.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function
>>>>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x);
>>>>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>>>>> 03 int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>>>>> 04 if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>> 06 return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>> 09 int main()
>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>> 11 H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>> 12 return 0;
>>>>>>>>>> 13 }
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the above case a simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly
>>>>>>>>>> emulates at least one of the x86 instructions of D in the order
>>>>>>>>>> specified by the x86 instructions of D.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of H
>>>>>>>>>> in the order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus calling
>>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) in recursive simulation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any H/D pair matching the above template where
>>>>>>>>>> D(D) is simulated by the same H(D,D) that it calls
>>>>>>>>>> cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *This is a simple software engineering verified fact*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Note that olcott defines 'verified fact' as 'proven fact', but he is
>>>>>>>>> unable to show the proof. So, it must be read as 'my belief'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A "proven fact" without a proof is not worse than a "verified fact"
>>>>>>>> without a verification.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I updated my wording*
>>>>>>> It is self-evidently true to anyone having sufficient knowledge
>>>>>>> of the semantics of the C programming language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it is not. I would know if it were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you do not understand that a single valid counter-example
>>>>> would refute my claim then you don't know enough about proofs.
>>>>
>>>> Your claim
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most people to not know the difference between deductive proof
>>> ]and inductive evidence.
>>
>> Most people don't read comp.theory so here we needn't care.
>>
>
> If anyone is trying to prove me wrong they
> must first understand what an actual proof is.
>
> Several people here seem to think that ad hominem personal
> attacks and insults are the basis for a valid rebuttal.
>
> Richard has stated that he thinks that an example of
> {D never simulated by H} ∈ {every D simulated by H}
More generally, everybody who knows what ∈ usually means,
thinks that {} ∈ X is true unless it is a syntax error.
> On 5/1/2024 7:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> Message-ID: <v0ummt$2qov3$2@i2pn2.org>
> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cv0ummt%242qov3%242%40i2pn2.org%3E
>
>
>>>>>>> It is self-evidently true to anyone having sufficient knowledge
>>>>>>> of the semantics of the C programming language.
>>>>
>>>> is a little unclear about the meaning of "It" but I think it
>>>> is false for any reasonable interpretation. Can I call myself
>>>> a counter-example?
As this question seems unanswered I thing it is best to say that
you haven't proven that I am not a counter-example and therefore
that a counter-example does not exist.
--
Mikko
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Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 20:15 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:29 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 21:46 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:59 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-17 09:25 +0200
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-17 12:08 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 10:55 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:06 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 12:45 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:38 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 10:52 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-19 13:37 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 07:36 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-19 16:43 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 08:59 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 13:17 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts --- Admitted Liar olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 14:07 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts --- Olcott is an Admitted Liar Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 15:20 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-20 11:08 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 12:53 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 20:57 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-21 12:39 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-21 11:54 +0200
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-21 21:06 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 08:41 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-21 21:46 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 10:30 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 12:46 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:06 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 12:53 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:43 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-05-18 10:07 +0000
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 16:30 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:55 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 11:02 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:06 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-18 10:56 +0200
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