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Groups > comp.theory > #105315
| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts |
| Date | 2024-05-20 20:57 -0400 |
| Organization | i2pn2 (i2pn.org) |
| Message-ID | <v2grho$1kiah$5@i2pn2.org> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <v2crno$3cifp$2@dont-email.me> <v2cvlk$3de7m$1@dont-email.me> <v2d0jd$3ddo5$2@dont-email.me> <v2f0dk$3ssf8$1@dont-email.me> <v2g2nn$3ugq$2@dont-email.me> |
On 5/20/24 1:53 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/20/2024 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-05-19 13:59:09 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 5/19/2024 8:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-19 12:36:08 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/19/2024 5:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-18 14:38:53 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 4:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-17 15:55:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/17/2024 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-17 07:25:52 +0000, Fred. Zwarts said:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Op 17.mei.2024 om 03:15 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>> The following is self-evidently true on the basis of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics of the C programming language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function
>>>>>>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x);
>>>>>>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>>>>>>> 03 int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>>>>>>> 04 if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 06 return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09 int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 return 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 13 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the above case a simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates at least one of the x86 instructions of D in the order
>>>>>>>>>>>> specified by the x86 instructions of D.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of H
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus
>>>>>>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) in recursive simulation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Any H/D pair matching the above template where
>>>>>>>>>>>> D(D) is simulated by the same H(D,D) that it calls
>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is a simple software engineering verified fact*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Note that olcott defines 'verified fact' as 'proven fact',
>>>>>>>>>>> but he is unable to show the proof. So, it must be read as
>>>>>>>>>>> 'my belief'.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A "proven fact" without a proof is not worse than a "verified
>>>>>>>>>> fact"
>>>>>>>>>> without a verification.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *I updated my wording*
>>>>>>>>> It is self-evidently true to anyone having sufficient knowledge
>>>>>>>>> of the semantics of the C programming language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it is not. I would know if it were.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you do not understand that a single valid counter-example
>>>>>>> would refute my claim then you don't know enough about proofs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your claim
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Most people to not know the difference between deductive proof
>>>>> ]and inductive evidence.
>>>>
>>>> Most people don't read comp.theory so here we needn't care.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If anyone is trying to prove me wrong they
>>> must first understand what an actual proof is.
>>>
>>> Several people here seem to think that ad hominem personal
>>> attacks and insults are the basis for a valid rebuttal.
>>>
>>> Richard has stated that he thinks that an example of
>>> {D never simulated by H} ∈ {every D simulated by H}
>>
>> More generally, everybody who knows what ∈ usually means,
>> thinks that {} ∈ X is true unless it is a syntax error.
>>
>
> According to that reasoning everyone
> thinks that {cats} ∈ {dogs} is true.
Why?
DO you think {} and {cats} are the same thing?
>
>>> On 5/1/2024 7:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> Message-ID: <v0ummt$2qov3$2@i2pn2.org>
>>> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cv0ummt%242qov3%242%40i2pn2.org%3E
>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is self-evidently true to anyone having sufficient knowledge
>>>>>>>>> of the semantics of the C programming language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is a little unclear about the meaning of "It" but I think it
>>>>>> is false for any reasonable interpretation. Can I call myself
>>>>>> a counter-example?
>>
>> As this question seems unanswered I thing it is best to say that
>> you haven't proven that I am not a counter-example and therefore
>> that a counter-example does not exist.
>>
>
> UNDER DEDUCTION (AKA PROOF)
> The argument from authority is a logical fallacy[2] (also known as ad
> verecundiam fallacy), and obtaining knowledge in this way is fallible.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
>
>
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Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 20:15 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:29 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 21:46 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-16 22:59 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-17 09:25 +0200
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-17 12:08 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 10:55 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:06 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 12:45 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:38 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 10:52 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-19 13:37 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 07:36 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-19 16:43 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 08:59 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 13:17 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts --- Admitted Liar olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-19 14:07 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts --- Olcott is an Admitted Liar Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-19 15:20 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-20 11:08 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-20 12:53 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-20 20:57 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-21 12:39 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-21 11:54 +0200
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-21 21:06 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-21 08:41 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-21 21:46 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 10:30 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-17 12:46 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:06 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 12:53 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:43 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-05-18 10:07 +0000
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-05-18 16:30 +0300
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-18 09:55 -0500
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-18 11:02 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-17 21:06 -0400
Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-18 10:56 +0200
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