Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

From	Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee
Date	2017-12-28 19:40 +0100
Message-ID	<v1LfX-3ZV-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<uFnaF-2Ir-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <v0Z1E-3Zy-31@gated-at.bofh.it> <v1DBM-77D-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <v1FNf-6k-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
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]] Martin Steigerwald 

> Regarding Systemd/SysVInit/OpenRC this approach comes with a considerable cost 
> tough as it is such a core part of the system. One cost is that a lot of 
> packages link against Systemd library which is part of the reason why Devuan 
> exists. Or that GNOME and to some degree other DEs without Systemd is somewhat 
> challenging. Devuan developers gave up on the GNOME without Systemd topic for 
> now as far as I understood.

systemd-shim seems to still exist in testing, so presumably it works
well enough that it's not accumulating RC bugs.

As for why you want to avoid linking to particular libraries, that's
simply not how Debian works.  We generally enable all options and link
to every library possible (as long as they don't interact badly).
Personally, I don't particularly favour mysql, but I don't go out of my
way to ensure I don't have libmysqlclient (or nowadays,
libmariadbclient) installed.  It's just pointless, the cost in terms of
disk space is tiny.

[…]

> Within the Debian project a first good step would be to accept the fork, 
> instead of just tolerating (and probably suffering from) it (what else could 
> Debian people anyway than at least to tolerate it? it is free software after 
> all). Accepting the fork basically is just accepting that the past is they way 
> it is. Could I let go of wanting to change the past? Especially when all my 
> wanting to change the past still was not able to change it?

I don't know what you mean by accepting the fork.  It's a fork.  Forking
is fine and those folks interested in doing something that doesn't fit
in Debian proper (whether that's removing specific bits they object to
or something else) are free to do so.

[…]

> Also are either not all CTTE´s are announced on debian-devel-announce or is 
> [CTTE #741573] Debian Menu System from September 2015 really the last 
> technical decision of the CTTE?

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/07/msg00006.html is
an example of one from this summer.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are

Thread

Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 02:30 +0200
  Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-10-28 13:40 +0200
    Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 01:20 +0200
      Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-10-31 11:10 +0100
        Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-10-31 17:20 +0100
          Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-10-31 17:50 +0100
            Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Luk Claes <luk.claes@gmail.com> - 2017-10-31 18:20 +0100
          Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2017-10-31 18:40 +0100
            Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Marty <martyb@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-11-03 23:00 +0100
              Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 00:40 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Marty <martyb@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-11-07 02:20 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-11-07 04:00 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> - 2017-12-26 15:40 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-12-26 16:10 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-12-28 11:30 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-12-28 13:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Martin Steigerwald <martin@lichtvoll.de> - 2017-12-28 13:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the  Technical Committee Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-12-28 14:00 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2017-12-28 19:40 +0100
          Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-10-31 18:40 +0100
            Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-11-02 14:20 +0100
              Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-11-02 14:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-11-02 19:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 00:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 02:20 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-11-04 02:50 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-11-04 06:40 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2017-11-05 17:10 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-11-04 05:20 +0100
                Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2017-11-03 14:10 +0100
    Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 05:30 +0100
  Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about  the Technical Committee Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 00:00 +0200
    Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-10-29 01:30 +0200

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