Re: Replace systemd

From	Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Replace systemd
Date	2017-07-06 16:10 +0200
Message-ID	<u0fDH-5sz-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <tZgLv-75o-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <u0cPw-3uf-27@gated-at.bofh.it> <u0dLA-49t-17@gated-at.bofh.it> <u0eHE-4JM-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <u0fkl-4Ys-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

Show all headers | View raw

Le 07/06/17 à 15:27, Reco a écrit :
> On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 08:45:30AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>> On 2017-07-06 at 07:48, Reco wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 06, 2017 at 12:53:29PM +0200, Erwan David wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 07/03/17 à 22:48, Dejan Jocic a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> You can still use Debian without systemd as init. Explained
>>>>> here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/05/msg00538.html
>>>>>
>>>>> If you would prefer that it is some derivate/fork of Debian
>>>>> without systemd, I do not have personal experience with those,
>>>>> but I'm sure that you will get few hints.
>>>>
>>>> init is a small part of systemd. And judging y the bug reported and
>>>> how they are treated, I do not trust any part of it. Neither
>>>> resolved, logind, etc...
>>>
>>> So you do not trust udev as well?
>>
>> I consider it unfortunate that udev is maintained as part of the systemd
>> suite, rather than being maintained independently (even if by the same
>> people), purely from a separation-of-distinct-things perspective.
>>
>> I haven't seen any relevant problems with it to date, however; the worst
>> aspect of that maintenance situation is that it means upgrading udev
>> shows the systemd changelog (which rarely has any relevant changes
>> listed), rather than only a changelog for udev itself.
> 
> Um. So called Predictable Network Interface Names, for starters.
> Does *very funny* things to Debian (anything that have net.ifnames=1
> really) running in ESXi.
> 
> Somewhat old, but truly golden story about udev and firmware loading -
> https://lwn.net/Articles/518942/
> 
> And, of course #762018 deserves a honorable mention.
> 
> 
>>>> And it is NOT possible to use debian without any part of systemd.
>>>
>>> Indeed it is. It is not possible to use Debian without udev.
>>> Everything else is optional though.
>>
>> You do at least also need libsystemd0 - or at any rate, trying to remove
>> that on my (otherwise systemd-free) system results in removing 735
>> packages, and leaving at least a few hundred others in "automatically
>> installed, would be removed by autoremove" state.
> 
> True. But does libsystemd0 count? It's a library, not an executable.
> 
> Reco
> 
There are also packages which add a dependency on systemd whereas the
same software works perfectly on FreeBSD, thus without anything
ressembling it (eg hplip).
This leads to upgrade from a jessie without systemd will install it.

Thread

Replace systemd Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net> - 2017-07-03 22:40 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-07-03 23:00 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 00:10 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 00:30 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Jason Wittlin-Cohen <jwittlincohen@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 02:30 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-07-04 07:00 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 20:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 00:30 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 01:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-07-05 03:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 14:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 04:30 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> - 2017-07-05 10:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-05 10:30 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 15:10 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 13:10 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 17:40 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net> - 2017-07-05 23:50 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Jim Ohlstein <jim@mailman-hosting.com> - 2017-07-03 23:00 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 07:00 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 15:20 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-07-05 16:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-05 16:40 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 23:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-05 23:50 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 01:00 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd chris <tknchris@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 00:00 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 01:30 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 06:30 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-07-03 23:10 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-07-06 13:10 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 14:10 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 15:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 15:50 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-07-06 16:10 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 18:20 +0200
                Re: Re: Replace systemd Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2017-07-07 05:40 +0200
                Re: Re: Replace systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:00 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-07-06 15:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 18:10 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 07:10 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-07-03 23:40 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd David Griffith <dave@661.org> - 2017-07-05 01:00 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 04:40 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 15:20 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 01:50 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 12:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 18:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 22:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 00:50 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-07 16:10 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 18:10 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 23:40 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:30 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd JPlews <jw@plews.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 15:10 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 17:50 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-05 18:40 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-07-05 19:10 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 05:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 13:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 14:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-07-06 14:30 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd JPlews <jw@plews.org.uk> - 2017-07-06 16:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 15:40 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd David Griffith <dave@661.org> - 2017-07-06 11:40 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 13:10 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd David Griffith <dave@661.org> - 2017-07-06 05:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 07:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Ansgar Burchardt <"Ansgar Burchardt"@43-1.org> - 2017-07-06 08:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 10:30 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 14:10 +0200
          And the UNasked questions are? - was [Re: Replace systemd] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-07-06 11:50 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> - 2017-07-09 13:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-07-09 15:30 +0200

csiph-web