Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > linux.debian.user > #183297

Re: Replace systemd

From The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Replace systemd
Date 2017-07-06 14:10 +0200
Message-ID <u0dLB-49t-35@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <tZhey-7h6-25@gated-at.bofh.it> <tZEXw-6cG-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <tZUIV-89P-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <u05XI-7aa-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <u0akI-1Ps-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization This space intentionally left blank.

Show all headers | View raw


[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] - view raw

On 2017-07-06 at 04:09, Dejan Jocic wrote:

> On 06-07-17, David Griffith wrote:
> 
>> I'm aware of that technique.  What I was talking about is a menu
>> option that pops up when the install is running that explicitly
>> asks the person installing which init to use.
> 
> There was no such option when SysVinit was default. Why would it
> exist now?

Because now there are multiple prominent init-system alternatives from
which to choose, and the question has been brought to the forefront
since we are no longer running purely on inertia in this matter.

My own preferred way of addressing the init-system dispute would have
been to add exactly this sort of installer option for jessie, without
changing the default away from sysvinit, and then change the default to
systemd for *stretch*, while retaining the installer option.

We had no option for a long time because there was only one init system
that was meaningfully available, and then because the possible
alternatives (even if being seriously considered) were not particularly
controversial. That was inertia and laziness, and is not a good way of
doing things.

Now that the fact of this omission has been brought to our attention,
the right thing to do would be to provide such an option, and once the
option is established in the ecosystem, *then* change which alternative
is selected by default.

I would say that even if sysvinit were still the default alternative.
Once the fact that you've been omitting an option to choose where
meaningful choice exists is known, to fail to correct that omission is a
fault.

> There are also no options to choose default browser, editor, video 
> player, music player and so on. But everyone is free to install and
> set as default whatever they like. Including init system.

IIRC there is an option to choose default WM or DE, however, albeit from
a limited list (I'm thinking of task-gnome-desktop, task-kde-desktop,
task-xfce-desktop, etc.) - and there is the option to install without
any of the above and make the decision later, whereas there is no such
option for the init system.

Most of those aren't nearly as controversial as the init-system choice
has proven, either - and the ones which are (vi vs. emacs, anyone?)
don't tend to install *any* of the controversial options by default,
last time I checked. Since not installing an init system isn't a
meaningful possibility, providing a "select your choice" option is the
next best thing.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

Back to linux.debian.user | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

Replace systemd Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net> - 2017-07-03 22:40 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-07-03 23:00 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 00:10 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 00:30 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Jason Wittlin-Cohen <jwittlincohen@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 02:30 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-07-04 07:00 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-07-04 20:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 00:30 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 01:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-07-05 03:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 14:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 04:30 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> - 2017-07-05 10:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-05 10:30 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 15:10 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 13:10 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 17:40 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net> - 2017-07-05 23:50 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Jim Ohlstein <jim@mailman-hosting.com> - 2017-07-03 23:00 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 07:00 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 15:20 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-07-05 16:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-05 16:40 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 23:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-07-05 23:50 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 01:00 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd chris <tknchris@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 00:00 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 01:30 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 06:30 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-07-03 23:10 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-07-06 13:10 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 14:10 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 15:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 15:50 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-07-06 16:10 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 18:20 +0200
                Re: Re: Replace systemd Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2017-07-07 05:40 +0200
                Re: Re: Replace systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:00 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-07-06 15:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 18:10 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 07:10 +0200
  Re: Replace systemd Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-07-03 23:40 +0200
    Re: Replace systemd David Griffith <dave@661.org> - 2017-07-05 01:00 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 04:40 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 15:20 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 01:50 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 12:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 18:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 22:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 00:50 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-07 16:10 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 18:10 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-07 23:40 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-07-07 21:30 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd JPlews <jw@plews.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 15:10 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
      Re: Replace systemd Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-07-05 17:50 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-05 18:40 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-07-05 19:10 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 05:20 +0200
              Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 13:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 14:00 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-07-06 14:30 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd JPlews <jw@plews.org.uk> - 2017-07-06 16:20 +0200
                Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 15:40 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd David Griffith <dave@661.org> - 2017-07-06 11:40 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 02:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 13:10 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd David Griffith <dave@661.org> - 2017-07-06 05:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-07-06 07:10 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Ansgar Burchardt <"Ansgar Burchardt"@43-1.org> - 2017-07-06 08:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 10:30 +0200
            Re: Replace systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-07-06 14:10 +0200
          And the UNasked questions are? - was [Re: Replace systemd] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-07-06 11:50 +0200
        Re: Replace systemd Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> - 2017-07-09 13:50 +0200
          Re: Replace systemd "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2017-07-09 15:30 +0200

csiph-web