Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

From	David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...
Date	2017-04-06 17:50 +0200
Message-ID	<tthPA-2yp-15@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <tsUJk-4eA-35@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttbKb-6Cm-39@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttcmR-6Rh-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttcGd-7cD-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttdiV-7pf-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Thu 06 Apr 2017 at 11:50:56 (+0100), Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 12:13:06 +0200
> Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote:
> 
> > Le septidi 17 germinal, an CCXXV, Joe a écrit :
> > >		   Even if that could be fixed afterwards, then there
> > > will be server downtime and a manual procedure involved which will
> > > not be part of the upgrade procedure and therefore will not have
> > > been tested by the upgrade designers.  
> > 
> > Does that mean that apart from the systemd issue you expect
> > dist-upgrade to have been tested on your particular setup and to
> > finish without downtime and manual procedure?
> > 
> 
> On the whole, yes. I have only packages from the Debian repositories
> installed, plus some of my own scripts. If I follow the upgrade release
> notes to the letter, I expect every package to upgrade cleanly, with
> possibly some minor problems with scripts. I expect some problems with
> web pages from different versions of apache, php, etc., but I don't
> consider them to be operating system upgrade issues.
> 
> Granted, there have been more little niggles with each upgrade (this
> machine started life as sarge), things get more complicated with each
> version.

I thought lenny→squeeze was the most complicated, because lenny's
standard kernel was not compatible with the upgrade process and
had to be upgraded in a preliminary step. That could then lead to
knock-on effects with non-free firmware. And, for safety, udev
had to be immediately upgraded because of the new kernel, then
the system rebooted to bring them into operation before the
upgrade.

> I'm not that bothered about downtime (within reason, the
> Debian lists get very stroppy when their emails bounce) but some people
> are.

A few minutes later you posted:

> If I was a paid admin looking after multiple servers, yes, that's the
> obvious thing to do. But this isn't my job, and I can't afford to buy a
> second set of hardware, so the only practical test is to actually do
> it.

How about getting those freeloading critics to fork out for
a new drive so that you can build and test a second system
(dual-bootable) during your scheduled downtimes.

> What is more worrying is having to wing it through a procedure
> which has not been tested fully and described in the upgrade documents,
> but it does appear that will not be the case here.

Cheers,
David.

Thread

If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-03-13 20:40 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> - 2017-03-13 20:50 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-13 20:50 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-03-13 20:50 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-03-13 21:50 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-13 22:00 +0100
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-15 13:20 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 12:40 +0100
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-14 20:00 +0100
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 21:30 +0100
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Glenn Holmer <cenbe@kolabnow.com> - 2017-03-14 21:30 +0100
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-03-14 21:50 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-13 22:00 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-13 22:50 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2017-04-03 14:10 +0200
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2017-04-03 14:30 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 16:40 +0200
          Systemd services (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-03 18:00 +0200
            Re: Systemd services Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2017-04-03 19:00 +0200
            Re: Systemd services (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) Joshua Schaeffer <jschaeffer0922@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 19:10 +0200
            Re: Systemd services (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 22:50 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2017-04-05 10:30 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 13:30 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-05 17:20 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 15:50 +0200
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 16:50 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-04-05 17:10 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 19:30 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-04-05 20:10 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 20:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Latincom <latincom@vcn.bc.ca> - 2017-04-06 11:00 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 17:20 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 11:20 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 12:00 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 12:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 12:40 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 13:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 13:40 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-04-06 15:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 16:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-04-06 16:30 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 16:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-04-06 16:50 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-04-06 12:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 13:00 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 17:50 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 19:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 20:00 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 20:20 +0200
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-03-14 00:40 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-14 01:30 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-03-14 02:00 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-03-14 13:10 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jan-Peter Rühmann <jan-peter@ruehmann.name> - 2017-03-14 12:20 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-15 13:10 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 13:50 +0200
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 01:40 +0200
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-04-02 02:30 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-04-03 13:10 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2017-04-03 13:50 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-04-03 14:10 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-03 14:30 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-04-03 14:40 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 15:20 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 16:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 19:10 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-04-03 16:00 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-03 16:40 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Latincom <latincom@vcn.bc.ca> - 2017-04-04 00:50 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-04-04 18:20 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-04-05 05:10 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 18:10 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-04-03 20:00 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 18:40 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2017-04-05 00:50 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-04-05 01:30 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 11:10 +0200

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