Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...

From	David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...
Date	2017-04-06 20:00 +0200
Message-ID	<ttjRn-41h-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <ttcmR-6Rh-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttcGd-7cD-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttdiV-7pf-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <tthPA-2yp-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttj50-3IL-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Thu 06 Apr 2017 at 18:02:22 (+0100), Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 10:45:23 -0500
> David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu 06 Apr 2017 at 11:50:56 (+0100), Joe wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > Granted, there have been more little niggles with each upgrade (this
> > > machine started life as sarge), things get more complicated with
> > > each version.  
> > 
> > I thought lenny→squeeze was the most complicated, because lenny's
> > standard kernel was not compatible with the upgrade process and
> > had to be upgraded in a preliminary step. That could then lead to
> > knock-on effects with non-free firmware. And, for safety, udev
> > had to be immediately upgraded because of the new kernel, then
> > the system rebooted to bring them into operation before the
> > upgrade.
> 
> I don't remember that, though I must have gone through it. I wouldn't
> dare try skipping a version. The only serious problem I had was when
> exim4 jumped a version, and the new one didn't accept debconf
> directives, and I hadn't noticed. Upgrading with the old configuration
> file being kept turned out to be a big no-no, it got into a state where
> even dpkg wouldn't uninstall the broken bits, and I had to resort to
> deleting files manually.
> 
> > 
> > > I'm not that bothered about downtime (within reason, the
> > > Debian lists get very stroppy when their emails bounce) but some
> > > people are.  
> > 
> > A few minutes later you posted:
> > 
> > > If I was a paid admin looking after multiple servers, yes, that's
> > > the obvious thing to do. But this isn't my job, and I can't afford
> > > to buy a second set of hardware, so the only practical test is to
> > > actually do it.  
> > 
> > How about getting those freeloading critics to fork out for
> > a new drive so that you can build and test a second system
> > (dual-bootable) during your scheduled downtimes.
> > 
> 
> My what? It's a home server/firewall/mail server. There is no scheduled
> downtime.

Sorry, I misunderstood your use of "some people". I thought they were
the users that your MTA transfers emails to.

> I migrated to a new hard drive a few months ago, and that
> gave me some unscheduled downtime until I discovered what the BIOS was
> doing with drive naming... it was one of those 'no, this *cannot* be
> happening' moments where I copied /etc/fstab between the wrong pair of
> drives, thereby breaking both old and new installations.
> 
> It still seems to be unreasonably difficult to use a working
> installation to install the correct grub information to another drive
> which is intended to become the new working installation, still a matter
> of messing around with chroot and a sequence of mounts and unmounts.

You're not still using /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, are you?

Cheers,
David.

Thread

If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-03-13 20:40 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... "John L. Ries" <jries@salford-systems.com> - 2017-03-13 20:50 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-13 20:50 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2017-03-13 20:50 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-03-13 21:50 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-13 22:00 +0100
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-15 13:20 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 12:40 +0100
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-14 20:00 +0100
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 21:30 +0100
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Glenn Holmer <cenbe@kolabnow.com> - 2017-03-14 21:30 +0100
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-03-14 21:50 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-13 22:00 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-13 22:50 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2017-04-03 14:10 +0200
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2017-04-03 14:30 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 16:40 +0200
          Systemd services (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-03 18:00 +0200
            Re: Systemd services Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2017-04-03 19:00 +0200
            Re: Systemd services (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) Joshua Schaeffer <jschaeffer0922@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 19:10 +0200
            Re: Systemd services (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 22:50 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2017-04-05 10:30 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 13:30 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-05 17:20 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 15:50 +0200
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 16:50 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-04-05 17:10 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 19:30 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-04-05 20:10 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 20:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Latincom <latincom@vcn.bc.ca> - 2017-04-06 11:00 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 17:20 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 11:20 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 12:00 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 12:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 12:40 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 13:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 13:40 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-04-06 15:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 16:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-04-06 16:30 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 16:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-04-06 16:50 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-04-06 12:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 13:00 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 17:50 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 19:10 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-06 20:00 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-06 20:20 +0200
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-03-14 00:40 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-03-14 01:30 +0100
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-03-14 02:00 +0100
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-03-14 13:10 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jan-Peter Rühmann <jan-peter@ruehmann.name> - 2017-03-14 12:20 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-15 13:10 +0100
  Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 13:50 +0200
    Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 01:40 +0200
      Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-04-02 02:30 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-04-03 13:10 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2017-04-03 13:50 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-04-03 14:10 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-03 14:30 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-04-03 14:40 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 15:20 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 16:20 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 19:10 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-04-03 16:00 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-03 16:40 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Latincom <latincom@vcn.bc.ca> - 2017-04-04 00:50 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-04-04 18:20 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-04-05 05:10 +0200
        Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 18:10 +0200
          Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-04-03 20:00 +0200
            Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 18:40 +0200
              Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2017-04-05 00:50 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-04-05 01:30 +0200
                Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 11:10 +0200

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