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| Subject | Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| References | (4 earlier) <RoidndUP7P7wY2T9nZ2dnUU7-QednZ2d@giganews.com> <87sg05hpup.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <6q6dnZysGs95VGf9nZ2dnUU7-QPNnZ2d@giganews.com> <87eebohgyx.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <teidnbRYSI_4pGb9nZ2dnUU7-V2dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
| Message-ID | <tmHKI.83049$Vv6.5515@fx45.iad> (permalink) |
| Organization | Forte - www.forteinc.com |
| Date | 2021-07-23 15:26 -0700 |
On 7/23/21 2:49 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/23/2021 4:12 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 7/22/2021 6:48 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/22/2021 6:04 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/22/2021 1:30 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running?
>>>>>>>> Because H is not a halt decider. You've been clear that H does not
>>>>>>>> compute the halting function. If it did, H(P, I) == 0 would be
>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>> only when P(I) does not stop running.
>>>>>>>> This is the pinnacle of your 17 years of "work" on halting?
>>>>>>>> Seriously, go walk a shelter dog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact that P[0] Only halts because H(P[1],P[1]) was correctly
>>>>>>> decided as not halting
>>>>>> Stupid smoke and mirrors. P(P) halts. The reason does not
>>>>>> matter. H
>>>>>> does not compute the halting function because H(P, P) == 0. What
>>>>>> else
>>>>>> do you have?
>>>>>
>>>>> int main() { P(P); } only halts because H(P,P) correctly determines
>>>>> that its input cannot possibly reach its final state.
>>>> For H to be halt decider, H(P,I) == 0 only for computations P(I) that
>>>> don't halt. You know this. H is not deciding halting, it's deciding
>>>> something else you refuse to give a name to.
>>
>>> int main() { P(P); } only halts because H(P,P) correctly determines
>>> that its input cannot possibly reach its final state.
>>
>> P(P) halts: agreed. H(P,P) == 0: agreed. For H to be a halt decider
>> H(P,I) == 0 only when P(I) does not halt: rejected by you. You reject
>> what a halt decider is, despite having quoted many authors on the
>> matter.
>>
>> Do you think any amount of waffle can hide the fact that you are not
>> talking about what the world calls a halt decider?
>>
>
> Because we know that the input to H(P,P) cannot possibly ever reach its
> halt state while H remains a pure x86 emulator or not we know the its
> input never halts.
But the question is does the machine represent by the input Halt, and we
KNOW that this machine does come to a Halt.
Also UTM(P,P) does simulate to a Halt, so we know that if just the top
instance of H is changed to not abort its simulation (and thus keep P
what it has been defined as) we will get this exact same result, thus by
your critrea, made honest, we see that P(P) is halting.
>
> That you fail to acknowledge this is dishonest.
POT - KETTLE - BLACK
That you keep going to the WRONG definition of what the Halting Decider
is suppsed to answer is more dishonest.
>
> I acknowledged that P of int main() { P(P); } halts once André pointed
> out that the most definitive measure of halting is reaching a final state.
>
Right, so P(P) is Halting, H(P,P) says Non-Halting, so H is WRONG about
P(P).
PERIOD.
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How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 10:51 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 11:15 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 10:38 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-22 10:34 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 13:16 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 11:39 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 00:11 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 23:14 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-22 19:30 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 14:17 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 12:42 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 00:04 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 18:25 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 00:48 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 08:53 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 08:50 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 11:00 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 09:31 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 12:13 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 11:31 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 13:42 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 11:56 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 14:07 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 12:23 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 15:38 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 13:53 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 15:56 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 14:25 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-23 17:49 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-24 03:56 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-24 12:40 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-24 04:52 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 08:55 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-24 16:44 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 10:54 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 09:08 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 08:50 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 09:16 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 10:31 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ pure simulator ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 09:34 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ pure simulator ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 09:25 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-23 17:42 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 19:26 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-23 19:02 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 20:32 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 18:42 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 20:50 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 19:28 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 23:38 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 23:17 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 09:05 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 09:31 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 12:23 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 11:34 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 13:42 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 13:07 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 14:22 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 12:38 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 15:01 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 13:14 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-25 04:07 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2021-07-25 21:02 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-25 21:33 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ Internals of H ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-26 10:08 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 12:21 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 14:24 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 12:44 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 15:03 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 13:19 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 16:10 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 17:31 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [ liar ??? ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 16:46 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-23 19:44 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [focused until mutual agreement ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 09:23 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [focused until mutual agreement ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 09:33 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [focused until mutual agreement ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-24 12:41 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? [focused until mutual agreement ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-24 11:39 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 18:00 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 22:12 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 16:49 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 15:26 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-25 04:07 +0100
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 13:11 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 17:18 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 15:46 -0700
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 17:08 -0600
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 09:35 -0500
Re: How is H(P,P)==0 correct even though P(P) stops running? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 09:48 -0700
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