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Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help
Date 2022-09-11 17:58 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <tfl0im$1vu1b$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <tfi6jk$1f9ct$1@dont-email.me> <87zgf714zc.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <tfil39$1h9u$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tfkj2l$1t7f3$1@dont-email.me> <8735cy0wt4.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

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On 11/09/2022 17:12, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> 
>> The "fast" and "least" types /do/ have their uses.  There are not many
>> targets that don't support 8-bit char and everything else as a power
>> of 8 bits, but there /are/ a few.  The main class of exceptions are
>> DSP processors, and some highly specialised task-specific embedded
>> processors.  With C23, I believe types (u)int8_t, (u)int16_t,
>> (u)int32_t and (u)int64_t have become mandatory - a target that does
>> not support these natively must simulate them.  This renders the
>> "least" types obsolete.
> 
> You are looking at them entirely from the point of view of portability,
> but their main use is in explaining what data the program needs.  In the
> vast number of cases, writing int_least8_t (say) says exactly what's
> needed and using int8_t says something incorrect about the code.
> 

C does not have a way to express such requirements in detail.  Languages 
like Ada and Pascal let you have range types - you can say you want an 
integer type that holds a number between 0 and 9 (as is the case here). 
  C can't do that.  (C++ could, if you want to make the right template 
classes.)

So "uint_least8_t" does not say what we want from a type in this 
example.  We do not need a type that can hold at least 8 bits - we need 
a type that can hold the range 0 to 9.  For that matter, we have no 
reason to say we want the /smallest/ type that can hold 8 bits, and thus 
"uint_least8_t" is no better than "uint_fast8_t" or "uint8_t" - each 
specifies the importance of a particular factor (small size, speed, 
precisely given size) when in fact we can disregard them all here.

So as I see it, in many cases (such as Tim's code), using 
"uint_least8_t" would be just as much over-specifying the type 
requirements as "uint8_t" does, while not giving the programmer or 
reader any useful additional information.


> The (u)intN_t types are most commonly needed to match external
> structures.  There is very little code that breaks if the type is wider.

Agreed.

> The more common exception being cases where N-bit modulo arithmetic is
> part of the algorithm, in which case uintN_t describes the precisely.

Agreed.

> 
>> The "fast" types, on the other hand, can have real use in embedded
>> systems that span a range of target devices.  Some 16-bit, 32-bit and
>> 64-bit processors require extra masking or extending instructions when
>> dealing with 8-bit or 16-bit data (the original Alpha processor was
>> particularly bad).  So local variables of a larger type are more
>> efficient.  On the other hand, these will be much less efficient if
>> the code is then compiled for an 8-bit target.  The main type of
>> interest here is "(u)int_fast8_t", since most uses of "int_fast16_t"
>> can be written as "int".
> 
> In fact may programmers are, in effect, using the "least" types because
> int really means int_least16_t and long means int_least32_t.
> 

No, I would say "int" corresponds closer to "int_fast16_t", rather than 
"int_least16_t".  Almost every 32-bit processor also supports 16-bit 
types, meaning "int_least16_t" would have to be 16 bits - yet their 
"int" will generally be 32-bit.  Implementations have the flexibility to 
choose 32-bit for "int_fast16_t" on such processors.  And "int_fast16_t" 
better matches the programmer's needs when he/she writes" int".

Still, almost all 32-bit (or bigger) systems implement both int_fast16_t 
and int_least16_t as the same as int16_t, while having "int" as 32-bit.

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Thread

Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help ManyBeers <markzuffi@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-08 11:34 -0700
  Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-08 11:56 -0700
  Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-08 20:19 +0100
  Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2022-09-08 12:34 -0700
  Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2022-09-08 20:38 -0600
  Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-09-09 03:22 -0700
    Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-09 13:30 +0000
  Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-09 09:16 -0700
    Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-09 19:06 +0000
      Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-10 11:58 +0200
        Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-10 11:37 +0100
          Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-10 13:05 +0200
          Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-10 14:42 +0000
            Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-10 16:10 +0100
              Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-10 18:14 +0200
        Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-10 12:54 +0100
          Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-10 16:22 +0200
            Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-10 19:03 +0100
              Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-10 19:30 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-10 19:47 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-11 14:07 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-11 16:12 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-11 17:58 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-11 21:14 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-11 20:01 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-11 23:32 -0400
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-12 13:52 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-14 03:24 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-14 08:10 -0400
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-26 06:09 -0800
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-12 16:53 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-12 16:48 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-12 17:46 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-12 20:37 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-13 00:03 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-13 12:31 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-13 12:48 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-13 14:18 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2022-09-13 17:13 +0300
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-13 16:50 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-13 18:47 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-14 03:16 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-13 20:15 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-13 20:29 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-13 22:22 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-13 14:37 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-13 23:16 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-13 22:16 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-13 16:15 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-13 16:15 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-14 10:58 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-14 15:36 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2022-09-14 21:53 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-14 05:55 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 10:10 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-14 07:54 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 18:32 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-14 18:39 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-15 01:12 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-15 09:11 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-15 08:07 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-14 18:40 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-14 05:45 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-14 12:11 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 09:57 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-14 03:09 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 10:29 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-14 15:14 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-14 07:36 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-10-03 01:10 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-03 11:36 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-10-04 02:13 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-04 16:27 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-13 11:48 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-14 10:38 +0200
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-14 14:27 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-14 07:58 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-16 13:06 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-16 13:16 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-12 17:55 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-12 18:22 +0000
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-12 20:41 +0100
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 15:45 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-11 15:41 -0700
                Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-12 17:06 +0200
              Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-11 06:46 -0700
          Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-11 06:57 -0700
      Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-11 07:07 -0700
        Neologism (Was: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-11 14:18 +0000
        Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-11 16:33 +0000
          Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-13 15:40 -0700
  Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-09 23:08 +0000
    Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-11 06:37 -0700
      Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-11 16:31 +0000
        Re: Beginner....Decimal/Octal converter help Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-09-13 15:44 -0700

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