Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #162543

Re: If Apple can permanently lock your hardware for not logging into it - why can't Microsoft do it too?

From	Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com>
Newsgroups	alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.comp.os.windows-11, alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Subject	Re: If Apple can permanently lock your hardware for not logging into it - why can't Microsoft do it too?
Date	2022-08-14 17:22 +0100
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<tdb7fi$1u1f$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <tdauim$81q$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tdb0lu$11rv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tdb2uf$3651v$1@dont-email.me> <tdb4aj$i2s$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tdb5dm$11ms$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Paul wrote:

>> Does Windows 11 Home _require_ a mothership account for full functionality?
>> Or not?
> 
> I'm sure you will find some recipe. 

Paul,
You may not recall, but you and I have tried to work around Microsoft
"requirements" and sometimes we won, and sometimes we lost.

For example, years ago, when MS started requiring the automatic updates, we
fought them tooth and nail and somewhat succeeded (although MS then
resorted to those funky files that even a dual-boot to Ubuntu couldn't
delete). Eventually, I gave up - and now I let MS update my machine.

Notice that it's a _requirement_ that MS update your Win10 Home/Pro
machine.

Likewise, you and I spend tremendous effort trying to wrestle the "tiled"
menus into shape, but we found out soon enough that some of those tiles are
binaries, and in the end, as far as I know, both of us lost that battle
too.

However, the tiled menus are NOT a requirement for full MS functionality.
We can easily use WinXP style native Windows 10 cascaded accordion menus.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/j5K0RL7H/taskbarmenu01.jpg> No cortana search icon

Some Microsoft so-called "requirements" we can easily ignore and still have
full functionality (e.g., Cortana); but some you really can't (e.g.,
updates).

The history above goes back years, where we "almost" never fail to wrestle
control over our machines from Microsoft - but can we do that in Win11
Home?

Specifically, how hard/easy it is to just skip the Microsoft Account
creation step in Windows 11 Home - and - what functionality is then lost?

> Even the latest Rufus appears to be
> armed with some editing function for it. There is at least one more method,
> not listed there.
>     https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account

Thanks for that link which, summarized, says:

"Maintain only a local account on your Windows 11 PC."
"By default, you must have (or create) a Microsoft account in order to
install Windows 11 Home  (and versions of Pro that are build 22H2 and up)."
"there's an easy way to install Windows 11 without using a Microsoft
account."

"There's a simple trick for using a local account that works on current
builds of Windows and involves cutting off Internet at just the right time
in the setup process."

That sounds good... 

"However, the upcoming (and currently in preview) build 22H2 is wise to
this trick and blocks it, demanding that you reconnect to the Internet
before continuing."

Drat.

"If you have Windows 11 22H2, you'll need to prepare your install disk
using Rufus, a process we document further down this page."

Now I see _why_ you brought up Rufus (which I have only some familiarity
with for when I was debugging Windows BSOD crashes).

> I would agree, that the MSA could be a requirement, if every copy of
> Windows 11 Home used encryption. But that does not seem to be the case.

Hmmmmm... what the heck does that sentence even mean?
I'm sure you meant it to mean something to me - but I don't know enough
about why encryption is involved at all to understand what it means to me.
   (see belated epiphany below)

> There is no need to store the recovery key in the MSA account on
> the Microsoft server. Nothing else on Home, is a particular excuse
> for an account. The encryption recovery key is the only thing
> I've heard of which is even remotely an excuse for an MSA.

Oh. Now I see, belatedly, _why_ you mentioned "encryption".

So there's this special need for an encrypted key to be stored on Windows
11 which is a "recovery" key only?

And that "recovery key" (whatever that is) is stored on MS servers?
In your MSA account?

> For any service you attempt to set up, which requires an account,
> you will receive the Microsoft login window as a "hint" an MSA is required.

If there is a "skip", then I can ignore that hint.
If there is not a "skip", then we're in trouble.

> In some cases (yet again), the login window is bogus, and there may be
> ways to bypass it and carry out the function desired. 

The keyword is "may", which, I believe may exist - but what is the
solution? 

Even the Toms'Guide article you referenced said MS is getting wise to this.
"Another method, which works even with Windows 22H2, involves confusing
Windows by entering an email address that, apparently, has been used too
many times. This worked for us, but Microsoft could get wise to it."

> I've had at least
> one case here, where batting the login window out of the way, allowed
> continuing on in spite of it being presented. Just because there is a
> login window, does not mean it is always set up to block forward progress.
> In some cases, it's merely a side effect of some software you are
> using, "attempting to sniff the MSA" and triggering the login.

Thank you for confirming that the MS account is "required" but that
Toms'Guide article shows one possible method, using Rufus, to avoid it.

"If you're installing Windows 11 22H2 or newer, you need to use Rufus (or
some other method) to create the install disk so that turning off Internet
during the setup process allows you to proceed with a local account."

Getting back to the original question, it _does_ seem that the mothership
tracking account _is_ required (as it can only be removed with extreme
effort).

Hence the question is valid (now that we've established the facts)... 
 *If other motherships can disable your device, what's to stop MS?*

That is, how do we know Microsoft won't disable _our_ Win11 devices too?

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