Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #477154

Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star

From owl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star
Date 2018-11-13 20:05 +0000
Organization O.W.L.
Message-ID <sz9b0803ga.4@rooftop.invalid> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <6e7c7653-4734-457c-b85b-fa5ccf3e6e90@googlegroups.com> <p6kz0b803ga.gh34@rooftop.invalid> <876803f1-4014-46f4-bfbc-2551770d3711@googlegroups.com> <18s9z0b803.ago3lp@rooftop.invalid> <c5ceda5d-a772-4e4e-a47d-4b5d76c5d618@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote:
>> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-7, owl wrote:
>> >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote:
>> >> >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> >> >> > owl wrote:
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not
>> >> >> >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it.  The guitar is not the violin.
>> >> >> >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands.
>> >> > 
>> >> > You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' 
>> >> > and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double 
>> >> > stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony
>> >> > and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it,
>> >> > just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a 
>> >> > solo vocalist).
>> >> > 
>> >> >> > Damn near.  For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Unlistenable... to *you*.  If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, 
>> >> > Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are 
>> >> > "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys 
>> >> > are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has.
>> >> > 
>> >> >> Voodoo Chile has vocals.  So does Machine Gun.  So does Stranglehold.
>> >> >> So does Bridge of Sighs.  So does Highway Star.  So does Comfortably Numb.
>> >> >> Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself.
>> >> > 
>> >> > We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being  touted
>> >> > as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think  Perry is
>> >> > a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year 
>> >> > old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get 
>> >> > boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good 
>> >> > at singing as EJ is at guitar.
>> >> > 
>> >> > That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended
>> >> > but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied
>> >> > as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a
>> >> > scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid
>> >> > pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to
>> >> > paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear
>> >> > are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what
>> >> > is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of
>> >> > uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben
>> >> > Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot
>> >> > of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's
>> >> > playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never,
>> >> > ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will".
>> >> > 
>> >> 
>> >> Here is one of the most famous guitar solos in history, in a song that
>> >> is dominated by guitar throughout, but can you imagine this song without
>> >> vocals?  Who would want to listen to it? :
>> >> 
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaAE33rMTSk&t=4m52s
>> > 
>> > Most casual listeners of music value vocals above all else,
>> > sometimes to the exclusion of everything else... I generally 
>> > go the other direction <shrug>. That's not to say I don't like
>> > any vocals, I just tire of them more quickly unless they have
>> > certain qualities or the tune, including the instrumentation,
>> > is interesting. I'm not a huge fan of 'power chord' music, I'm
>> > far more into harmony and being able to hear a bit of space.
>> > Power chords and the sound used to obtain it consume most
>> > of the space so unless it's highly musically engaging from a
>> > rhythmic standpoint, I generally pass. 
>> > 
>> > In my generation I guess I'm what you'd call an 'old soul' as
>> > many of the bands my peers raved over didn't interest me very 
>> > much. AD/DC? Pink Floyd? Judas Priest? With a few exceptions 
>> > I could take 'em or leave 'em. This doesn't mean that I don't 
>> > recognize they have produced some good material but, for the 
>> > most part, it just wasn't a large part of my 'musical diet'.
>> > 
>> 
>> Almost without exception, songs that are notable specifically *for*
>> their great guitar work are songs that also had vocals.  
> 
> Depends on who is doing the listening, "notable" does not necessarily
> mean the most famous or popular with record sales to back it up. There 
> are plenty of players who've played notable solos on instrumental tunes 
> that the average music listener is totally unaware of simply because it's 
> not a vocal tune. That the average music listener prefers vocal tunes is 
> nothing new... the voice is the most 'relatable' of instruments and the
> best part is you don't need any musical training to sing in the shower.
> 
>> People like
>> Vai and Satriani might be technical masters, but their original music
>> is horrible
> 
> Some of it, no doubt.
> 
>>, and when they try to play other genres -- usually in an
>> attempt to show how "unsophisticed" or technically easy those genres are
>> -- they fail utterly.  They seem to have an assburger-like dissociation
>> from the emotional aspect of music.  That's also true of most jazzy
>> stuff in general though.
> 
> I don't disagree about certain aspects with Vai and Satriani (not 
> the emotion part, though). But to say this of jazz music in general? 
> Not buying... and not only because you're painting with too broad 
> a brush but because you don't find it listenable... *you* don't, and 
> maybe the gen pop doesn't, either, but that's only because they
> lack interest in instruments that aren't a voice. Guys like Vai and 
> Satriani only fail utterly (and only relatively) in the commercial 
> version of success, in the musical version they're both highly 
> regarded (not really my cup of tea, however).
> 
>> I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain
>> players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed
>> to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that
>> anybody wants to hear.  I think that praise has more to do with defensive
>> exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary
>> "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present
>> itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general,
>> for that matter, I'm happy to say.
>> 
>> Case in point:  Jeff Beck. :)
> 
> Nice try... Jeff Beck *also* fulfills the role of 'being popular'

Not.

> and 
> became so under his own name fairly early in his career. Beck was
> going to make it regardless of who he played with, same with the
> players I mentioned above... same with guys like Scott Henderson, 
> Mike Stern, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton, etc.

Who? who who who and who? (an extra who there for some other you might
want to add that also nobody listens to).

> There are some people 
> who just stick out due to their uniqueness, they're not being listened 
> to  by the average consumer of music because what they do doesn't 
> focus on vocals... but they're playing circles around everybody else
> and doing so in ways that can't be easily emulated.
> 

I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler.

Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Simon bar Sinister <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 04:49 -0800
  Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 05:11 -0800
  Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 07:42 -0800
    Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 08:01 -0800
    Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-12 16:19 +0000
      Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 08:32 -0800
        Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 01:04 +0000
          Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:17 -0800
            Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:24 -0800
              Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:55 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 21:51 -0800
              Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 02:02 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 18:27 -0800
            Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 01:34 +0000
              Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 18:21 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 18:58 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 21:35 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 13:04 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-13 07:35 -0600
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 14:00 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 07:17 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 15:49 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 08:51 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 17:26 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 10:11 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 10:38 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 20:05 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 13:22 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 14:47 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 23:46 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 16:19 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 18:32 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 18:54 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 03:56 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 10:52 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 20:01 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 12:44 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 13:00 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 13:31 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 00:02 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 18:43 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 04:12 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 08:01 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 18:28 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 11:22 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 19:47 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 12:07 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 20:29 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 12:59 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 21:44 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 13:53 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 14:18 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 15:07 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 02:03 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 20:01 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 04:17 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 20:42 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 04:58 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 07:49 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 08:21 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 16:31 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 09:00 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 17:30 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 09:50 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 18:04 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 10:58 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 20:25 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 13:04 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 20:25 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 11:17 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 08:59 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 13:02 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 17:42 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 09:51 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 18:01 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 10:06 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 20:42 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 17:06 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 22:31 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 17:34 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 22:49 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:04 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:24 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:56 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:11 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 14:53 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 14:57 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:17 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:24 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 14:48 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 23:24 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:25 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:31 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 23:33 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:45 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:02 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:14 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:26 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:43 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:56 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:16 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 01:28 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 21:22 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 22:55 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:44 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 19:49 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 22:24 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 19:42 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:48 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 19:54 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:12 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:55 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 20:09 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:12 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 21:37 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 08:22 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-16 11:49 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 17:28 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 09:29 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 09:04 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 11:55 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 08:53 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 09:50 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 17:08 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 09:53 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 18:11 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 10:49 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-16 13:06 -0600
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 11:09 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 19:33 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 11:35 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 19:43 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-16 19:00 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 17:25 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 09:08 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 19:29 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 12:01 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 20:21 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 12:27 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 13:52 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 14:02 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 23:23 +0000
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 08:56 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 10:52 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-11-16 13:23 -0700
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 11:55 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 13:09 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 10:59 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 17:07 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-11-14 16:43 -0700
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 12:50 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 11:51 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 20:13 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 21:14 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-14 09:51 -0500
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 07:23 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 08:49 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-14 11:19 -0600
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 06:44 -0800
                Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 05:41 -0800
          Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:23 -0800
    Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-11-12 12:40 -0500
      Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 09:49 -0800
        Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-11-12 12:53 -0500

csiph-web