Re: Who Knew ?

From	Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Who Knew ?
Date	2021-10-29 08:13 -0700
Organization	dis-organization
Message-ID	<slh33b$hte$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<y6GdnVXcEu3Jeu38nZ2dnUU7-VfNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <skr4o5$jru$1@dont-email.me> <WPOdneLNxuV1ref8nZ2dnUU7-aXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <sle8ch$ipn$1@dont-email.me> <QI2dnfhzrME2HOb8nZ2dnUU7-c3NnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On 10/28/21 22:07, 1p166 wrote:
> On 10/28/21 9:25 AM, Pancho wrote:
>> On 28/10/2021 06:11, 1p166 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>    A few years ago there was a Brit sci-fi series
>>>    about sophisticated, but ultimately mindless,
>>>    quality androids. Their inventor impressed a
>>>    few with a sort of fractal thought pattern
>>>    that produced intelligence, "consciousness",
>>>    "self-awareness", "real people", as an emergent
>>>    property. I don't think the writers were so
>>>    far off.
>>>
>>
>> Yep it was called Humans, the series touched on the watershed moment 
>> of android development, the singularity...
>>
>> The point where androids will be able to satisfy the "Pancho" test. 
>> The test will be passed test if a standard examiner is unable to tell 
>> if he has shagged a real woman or an android.
>>
>> FWIW the series was originally Swedish "Real Humans". The first series 
>> was good, but went rapidly downhill afterwards.
> 
>    Ah yes, "Humans" ... but I think it died after the
>    second season. IMHO it'd done all it could do with
>    that particular premise.
> 
>    Never saw the Swedish version.
> 
>    But the idea that "sentience", "personhood", was
>    less pure hardware than it was a way of USING
>    said hardware ... a pattern, a meme ... struck
>    a chord. There's something to that.
> 
>    I mentioned hydrocephalic children for a reason.
>    Some have surprisingly little grey matter left.
>    Their scans reveal devastation, what's left of
>    their cortexes is more on the scale of chimps.
>    Yet, many attained normal+ capabilities. This
>    points to an organizational/connectional key,
>    beyond mere hardware.
> 
>    There are several beasties with bigger brains than
>    ours - but they just don't have "it". Whatever "it"
>    is seems to have showed up around the time of Homo
>    Hablis. H.Sapiens ... maybe not so much that we were
>    generally intellectually superior, but just "badder"
>    than the competitors. Quick, aggressive, somewhat
>    xenophobic -  we dominated the "trolls" and "ogres"
>    and such in the end. Resistance is futile. Then we
>    turned on each other ... which also seems to be a
>    significant evolutionary prompter. Having to outwit
>    your own - or else - that's evolutionary pressure.

	We are unable to discuss the curious matter of "personhood"
with creatures on this planet with larger brains due to disparate
means of communnication,  In an Antarctic dive the diver was
adopted by a Leopard seal which may have seen it as an injured
member of the young of its own species.  We have heard many tales
of dolphins helping people who fall into waters and as well tales
of dolphine raping their own species using gang tactics and
seemingly attempting seduction of human females,
	
	So don't dismiss the possibily of self-hood existing
in the so-called lower animals. I think that some self-awareness
is a survival mechanism as are these paragraphs.

	And we do a lot with the neurons in the autonomic
nervous system which the the brain connection to the mostly
"unconscious" functions which keep us more or less "alive".
> 
>    ANYway ... if we can find "it", that pattern, real
>    AI might be possible with a lot less hardware than
>    we currently envision.

bliss - 'Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.' After all 
here I am...
	
-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

Thread

Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-21 00:06 -0400
  Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-21 08:27 +0100
    Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-21 08:04 -0700
      Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 02:08 -0400
        Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:41 +0100
          Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:39 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:39 +0100
      Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:14 -0400
        Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
          Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 13:08 -0700
            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 22:43 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 04:32 -0400
            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:21 +0100
              Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 13:45 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 14:54 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 21:47 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 23:14 +0100
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 01:25 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2021-10-31 04:12 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:57 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:35 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 15:47 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-01 04:44 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:13 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-01 22:05 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 01:26 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-03 07:02 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-05 00:54 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:11 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 06:17 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 00:27 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:46 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 07:26 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 19:58 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 21:34 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:05 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 20:13 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:40 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-05 14:09 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:53 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-05 09:26 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 21:02 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-11-04 00:01 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:09 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:49 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 05:01 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:48 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:46 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:26 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-04 23:51 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:37 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:54 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-05 13:49 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:08 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 01:52 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-31 10:26 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:52 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
          Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:00 +0100
            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
          Re: Who Knew ? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2021-11-05 17:58 +1100
            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
    Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 01:11 -0400
      Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:39 +0100
      Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-28 14:25 +0100
        Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 14:49 +0100
        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:07 -0400
          Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 08:13 -0700
            Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:28 -0400
              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:24 +0000
      Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-28 08:15 -0700
        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:36 -0400
          Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-29 09:59 +0100
            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-30 01:49 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:59 +0100
              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:53 +0100
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 01:04 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:34 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 19:09 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 23:58 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:39 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:36 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 11:23 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:31 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-07 12:15 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-07 13:55 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-07 07:59 -0800
                Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-11-11 20:12 +0000
                Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-11-11 20:21 +0000
                Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-11-11 15:52 -0500
                Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-11 21:19 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:31 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2021-10-31 00:18 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:06 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-31 07:55 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:46 -0400

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