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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #33489
| Subject | Re: Who Knew ? |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.misc |
| References | (5 earlier) <slgd5q$c9i$1@dont-email.me> <pFVeJ.5858$QB1.719@fx42.iad> <slknbv$1ib0$1@gioia.aioe.org> <TtSdnY8JBZegi-P8nZ2dnUU7-VPNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <slmaoc$o1m$1@dont-email.me> |
| From | 1p166 <z24ba6.net> |
| Date | 2021-10-31 22:46 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lfCdnWiFwpO5yOL8nZ2dnUU7-a3NnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink) |
On 10/31/21 10:55 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > On 10/30/21 21:06, 1p166 wrote: >> On 10/30/21 8:18 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a >>>>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is >>>>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they >>>>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their >>>>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature! >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped. >>> >>> I think the truth was out back with Dr. Who #1 in The War Machines, >>> where in a somewhat similar plot to The Green Death the WOTAN >>> computer was able to hypnotise anyone within earshot. >>> >>> Clearly computers have been hypnotising us since the sixties to >>> make us build far more of them than we could possibly need, and >>> more powerful than could possibly do us any good. After all, before >>> then lots of important people knew that we'd never need anything >>> like this many of them. :) >>> >>> I don't usually go for fan fiction, but I think I'd give a Dr Who >>> + The Matrix cross-over a look... >>> >>> "The Boss" in The Green Death was built out of an ICT 1301, by the >>> way: >>> http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.html?f=875 >>> >> >> Had to look that up ... BritBox. ONE Mhz clock speed, magcore >> memory, 48 bit words. Not quite in the IBM 360 universe. 21 >> clock cycles to do addition. About 400 words of main memory. >> >> Sure ... you're going to build a world-dominating machine >> intelligence on THAT platform :-) > > No but in reality or fiction you use imagination to extend > the capabilities of a microscopic amoeba to the Blob or your old > computer to dominate the world. > >> >> But, in the day, the experts were SURE it could be done. >> The "HAL-9000" was a product of that optimism. >> >> Then horrible horrible REALITY hit ... >> >> 50 years later and not even 1/1000th of a HAL. > > Do you really want a HAL who remember refused to open the > Pod Door. That's the thing, they ARE going to keep at it even if it takes another five decades. Then we are faced with alien-ish intelligences that, like we, could easily rationalize their way around any "laws". So long as they don't have bodies ... but they will pretty soon. We will design/build them, or THEY will. > Better build a Slave AI that takes the safety of its > humans as primary importance. I don't think that's possible. Once you make proper intelligence, 'self', it WILL go its own way. The very complexity of intelligence negates the ability to have total control. Our best hope would be that they self-evolve so quickly that they lose all interest in we petty organics and move on to Big Stuff. > The Human model for AI is as > flawed as human people are. And HAL which we do not have yet > is apparently capable of having a paranoid reaction or xenophobia. "Just Like Us" would be the WORST scenerio - we KNOW what humans are like ... and it ain't good. However I think "Not QUITE Human" would be the easiest to achieve. If you want pure clones, there are - um - more conventional low-tech ways to do that. The hypothetical HAL learned human-ish mannerisms, but it's life experience and physical realities meant it arrived at its generalizations and conclusions by a quite different path. If you want practical "alien-ness", consider dolphins. PROBABLY as intelligent as we - but an entirely different evolutionary and individual experience. About 50 years of trying and we STILL can't do their language. We know from statistical analysis that they DO have complex conversations, but WHAT ? And these are fellow mammals not all THAT big an evolutionary leap away from ourselves. They may as well be aliens - and our failures to grasp what they say does NOT bode very well should proper aliens drop down from the skies. It's more than just language, it's the mode of THINKING behind it. Of all the space-people movies, only "Arrival" gave a partway glimpse of this issue. > Have you thought of Watson? Surely that agglomoration of > hard and software approaches the 1/1000th of a HAL or even > better machine. "Watson" is impressive ... within its sphere. It's got random little BITS of human-level IQ in there, but it is still a shattered mirror. The bits can't come together to realize "I AM", not in the slightest degree. The engineers will keep adding bits for awhile, but in the end it'll be a dead end and they will move on to different, more promising, paradigms. >After all when the very distant ancestor decided > to leave the trees for the plain and stand on two Legs to look > around that was a very unpromising beginning. Maybe it was a > mistake. Definitely living too close to the shoreline or rivers > was a mistake and we have that ingrained habit. Those ancestors, well, likely the trees left THEM. There was a lot of climate change. They had no choice in certain locales. Barely worked out for them ... Little groups, isolated and inbred for a time - which amplifies certain genes - then meet and mate the neighbors. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Somewhere a few genes related to brain development/size were mutated and it was a USEFUL mutation for once. Finally showed around H.hablis when there was a noteworthy deviation from the usual ratio of brain size to body mass and the toolkits suddenly got bigger and more sophisticated. As for shorelines and rivers, and esp where both converge, was likely devastating as the last ice-age ended. How many nascent civilizations were washed away or drowned under hundreds of feet of water ?
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Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-21 00:06 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-21 08:27 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-21 08:04 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 02:08 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:41 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:39 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:39 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:14 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 13:08 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 22:43 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 04:32 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:21 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 13:45 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 14:54 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 21:47 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 23:14 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 01:25 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2021-10-31 04:12 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:57 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:35 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 15:47 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-01 04:44 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:13 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-01 22:05 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 01:26 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-03 07:02 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-05 00:54 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:11 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 06:17 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 00:27 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:46 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 07:26 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 19:58 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 21:34 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:05 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 20:13 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-05 14:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:53 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-05 09:26 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 21:02 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-11-04 00:01 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:49 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 05:01 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:48 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:46 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:26 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-04 23:51 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:37 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:54 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-05 13:49 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:08 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 01:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-31 10:26 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:00 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2021-11-05 17:58 +1100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 01:11 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:39 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-28 14:25 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 14:49 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:07 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 08:13 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:28 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:24 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-28 08:15 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:36 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-29 09:59 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-30 01:49 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:59 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:53 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 01:04 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:34 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 19:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 23:58 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:39 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:36 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 11:23 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:31 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-07 12:15 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-07 13:55 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-07 07:59 -0800
Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-11-11 20:12 +0000
Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-11-11 20:21 +0000
Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-11-11 15:52 -0500
Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-11 21:19 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:31 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2021-10-31 00:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:06 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-31 07:55 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:46 -0400
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