Re: How to get mantissa of long double?

From	James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: How to get mantissa of long double?
Date	2021-10-03 23:31 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<sjdsjd$fgs$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<c19306a0-c1ea-419e-9604-d0e124c358e0n@googlegroups.com> <sjaa8r$7hs$1@dont-email.me> <sjaau5$bg8$1@dont-email.me> <w276J.23133$4X4.13084@fx27.iad>

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On 10/2/21 8:45 PM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2021-10-02, James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>> On 10/2/21 3:00 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> On 1 Oct 2021 17:37, wij wrote:
>>>> // numeric_limits<long double>::digits=64.
>>>> //
>>>> typedef long double FType;
>>>> FType x=numeric_limits<FType>::max();
>>>> int iexp;
>>>> int64_t mint;
>>>> x=::frexpl(x,&iexp);
>>>> x=::ldexpl(x,numeric_limits<FType>::digits);
>>>> mint= static_cast<int64_t>(x);>>
>>>> Result (mint) is a negative number, something not right!!!
>>>
>>> Apparently you're trying to obtain the bits of the mantissa of a `long 
>>> double` number, represented as an `int64_t` value.
>>>
>>> A `long double` is in practice either IEEE 754 64-bit, or IEEE 754 
>>> 80-bit. In Windows that choice depends on the compiler. With Visual C++ 
>>> (and hence probably also Intel) it's 64-bit, same as type `double`, 
>>> while with MinGW g++ (and hence probably also clang) it 80-bit, 
>>> originally the x86-family's math coprocessor's extended format. For 
>>> 80-bit IEEE 754 the mantissa part is 64 bits.
>>>
>>> With 64-bits mantissa there is a high chance of setting the sign bit of 
>>> an `int64_t` to 1, resulting in a negative value. I believe that that 
>>> will only /not/ happen for a denormal value, but, I'm tired and might be 
>>> wrong about that. Anyway, instead use  unsigned types for bit handling. 
>>> For example, in this case, use `uint64_t`.
>>
>> It would be safer and more portable to use FType; there's no portable
>> guarantee that any integer type is large enough to hold the mantissa,
>> but FType is.
> 
> How so if FType is just typedef?

A typedef is just a synonym for a type, it has exactly the same
characteristics as the type for which it is a synonym. What I said is
true because FType is a synonym for long double, the same type as x
itself. What I was asserting is that for any given floating point
object, the mantissa or significand stored in that object has a value
that is guaranteed to be representable in the same floating point type
as the object itself. There's no guarantee that any integer type is big
enough to represent it.

I've since thought this over, and checked carefully, and that's not
quite true - though it's true enough for most practical purposes. Let me
explain.

The C++ standard defines <cfloat>, and defines it's contents mostly by
cross-referencing the C standard's definition of <float.h>. Section
5.2.4.2.2 the C standard defines a parameterized model for floating
point representations, that is used as a basis for describing the
meaning of the macros defined in <float.h>, so that model is inherited
by C++.

I will need to refer to the following parameters of that model:
> b - base or radix of exponent representation (an integer > 1)
> e - exponent (an integer between a minimum e_min and a maximum e_max )
> p - precision (the number of base-b digits in the significand)

Note that b, e_min, e_max, and p are constants for any specific floating
point type.

In terms of that model, the value of the significand of a floating point
value x, interpreted as an integer, can be represented in the same
floating point type by a number with exactly the same significand, and e
= p.

The key issue is whether such a representation is allowed, and it turns
out that there can be floating point representations which fit the C
standard's model, for which e_max < p, preventing some signficands from
being representable in such a type.

The macro LDBL_MAX (corresponding to std::numeric_limits<long
double>::max()) is defined as expanding to the value of
(1 - b^(-p))*b^e_max, and is required to be at least 1e37. If, for
example, e_max == p-1 and b=2, then this means that for such a type, p
must be at least 124.

Every floating point format I'm familiar with has an e_max value much
larger than p, so I think, as a practical matter, that it's safe to
assume that signficands can be represented in the same floating point
type, but strictly speaking, it's not guaranteed.

Thread

How to get mantissa of long double? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 08:37 -0700
  Re: How to get mantissa of long double? RadicalRabbit@theburrow.co.uk - 2021-10-01 16:09 +0000
    Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-01 14:05 -0400
      Re: How to get mantissa of long double? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 17:23 -0700
        Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-02 18:58 +0200
          Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-02 19:21 +0200
  Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 19:18 +0200
    Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 19:20 +0200
      Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 19:25 +0200
        Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 19:53 +0200
          Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 08:09 +0200
            Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-03 11:15 +0100
              Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 12:19 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? red floyd <no.spam@its.invalid> - 2021-10-03 18:03 -0700
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-04 09:52 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-04 09:59 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-04 13:50 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-04 20:04 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 07:12 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-05 09:47 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 16:46 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-05 19:04 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 19:13 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 09:04 -0700
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 19:14 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-05 19:21 +0100
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 07:58 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-06 08:11 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 10:25 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-06 14:25 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 16:53 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-06 12:12 +0100
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 14:48 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2021-10-06 09:44 -0700
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 18:52 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 19:02 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-07 05:35 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-07 08:20 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 08:38 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 08:42 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-07 10:23 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 20:23 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-09 10:23 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-09 10:50 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-09 09:02 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-09 14:57 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-09 12:16 +0100
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-09 15:10 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2021-10-09 10:26 -0700
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-12 21:23 +0100
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? RadicalRabbit@theburrow.co.uk - 2021-10-13 10:30 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 08:38 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-08 04:37 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 07:54 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2021-10-07 22:44 -0700
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-07 08:17 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-08 04:39 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-08 09:25 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-08 14:34 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-06 13:57 -0700
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-05 19:34 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-05 19:33 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-05 10:19 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-04 14:06 +0100
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-04 16:12 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-04 16:15 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-04 16:15 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-05 09:48 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-10-05 05:19 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-10-05 10:00 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-05 16:47 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-04 14:37 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-04 16:53 +0200
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-10-04 17:08 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-04 20:22 +0100
    Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-10-01 19:09 +0100
      Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 20:16 +0200
  Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-01 18:53 +0000
    Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-01 20:19 -0400
      Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-02 02:16 +0000
        Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-02 01:28 -0400
        Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-02 01:56 -0400
          Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-02 10:59 +0000
            Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-02 14:57 -0400
            Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-02 15:37 -0400
              Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-03 00:47 +0000
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-03 23:42 -0400
                Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-04 04:35 +0000
  Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 12:09 +0200
  Re: How to get mantissa of long double? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 21:00 +0200
    Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-02 15:12 -0400
      Re: How to get mantissa of long double? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 21:23 +0200
        Re: How to get mantissa of long double? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 21:27 +0200
          Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-10-02 23:19 +0200
        Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-03 23:43 -0400
      Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-03 00:45 +0000
        Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-03 23:31 -0400
          Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-04 04:34 +0000
            Re: How to get mantissa of long double? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-04 11:30 -0400
              Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-04 16:19 +0000
    Re: How to get mantissa of long double? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 00:35 -0700
  Re: How to get mantissa of long double? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-10-03 15:02 +0100
    Re: How to get mantissa of long double? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 18:46 -0700

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