Re: naked switches

From	Bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: naked switches
Date	2021-07-10 15:08 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<scc9k8$rth$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <sc9190$h4g$1@dont-email.me> <sc9gav$iln$1@dont-email.me> <scc085$6h2$1@dont-email.me> <scc2cs$orb$1@dont-email.me> <scc7tq$cr9$1@dont-email.me>

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On 10/07/2021 14:39, David Brown wrote:
> On 10/07/2021 14:04, Bart wrote:

>> It's probably rare because the language doesn't support them!
> 
> No, it is because bit-fields like this are not commonly useful.
> 
>> If
>> available, they would be used a lot more. (As you've said, the macro to
>> set the value of an arbitrary bitfield is not trivial.)
>>
>> C does have bitfield indexing, but only for named fields in structs and
>> with poor control over layout. Having it available for any integer value
>> would be convenient.
> 
> I really don't see that.  And I do the kind of work where it would be
> most likely to be useful.

Maybe you're too used with dealing with bit manipulation using code like 
your examples below.

I guess you don't use macros like GETBIT, as that would mean you do find 
it useful.

>> And used to allow things like A.msb (as both lvalue and rvalue), and
>> A.even/A.odd (rvalue only).
>>
> 
> Why?  Can you give examples where these would be used often enough to
> deserve their own special syntax, and where that syntax would be clearer
> than "x & 1", "x |= 1", "x % 2", etc.?
> 
> (I'll accept that masking off a bit - "x &= ~1u" - is not great.)

OK, I'll try to translate your examples (into my syntax not CC64 if 
that's the OP's compiler):

   x & 1          x.[0]        (or x.lsbit) extract least sig bit

   x |= 1         x.[0] := 1   Set ls bit to 1

   x % 2          x.[0]        (When x is positive or unsigned)

   x &= ~1u       x.[0] := 0   Set ls bit to 0

I had to think carefully about these, then double check.

Even if correct, these may not directly reflect your intentions. Whereas 
those bit operations are exactly that.

Somebody looking at x & k would not be able to tell if k refered to a 
single bit, a contiguous bit, or is some arbitrary value that cannot be 
expressed as a bit-index op. (Not without making it more elaborate.)

Somebody looking at x.[k] could.

Dedicated ops just make this stuff incredibly easy, with less chance of 
error. Notice that in C, all those bit-0 manipulations used either 1 or 2

Thread

naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 16:39 -0700
  Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-08 01:26 +0100
  Re: naked switches Kaz Kylheku <563-365-8930@kylheku.com> - 2021-07-08 01:57 +0000
    Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-08 09:16 +0200
  Re: naked switches Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 01:00 -0700
    Re: naked switches Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 03:25 -0700
      Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 06:58 -0700
        Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-08 15:52 +0100
        Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-08 17:52 +0200
          Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-08 17:51 +0100
            Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 10:01 +0200
              Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-09 11:09 +0100
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 13:14 +0200
                Re: naked switches Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-07-09 15:35 +0200
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 16:51 +0200
                Re: naked switches Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-07-09 18:23 +0200
                Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-09 16:07 +0100
                Re: naked switches Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-07-09 18:41 +0200
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-10 11:02 +0200
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 19:20 +0200
                Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 10:46 -0700
                Re: naked switches Kaz Kylheku <563-365-8930@kylheku.com> - 2021-07-09 19:56 +0000
                Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-09 22:01 +0100
                Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 15:07 -0700
                Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-09 23:30 +0100
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-10 12:17 +0200
          Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 10:18 -0700
            Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-08 18:43 +0100
              Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 15:32 -0700
            Re: naked switches Kaz Kylheku <563-365-8930@kylheku.com> - 2021-07-08 17:47 +0000
              Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 15:45 -0700
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 10:27 +0200
                Re: naked switches Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 11:13 +0100
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 13:30 +0200
                Re: naked switches Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-07-11 00:39 -0700
                Re: naked switches scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-11 14:06 +0000
                Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 08:01 -0700
                Re: naked switches Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-07-16 03:53 -0700
                Re: naked switches scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-16 14:47 +0000
                Re: naked switches Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-09-30 06:09 -0700
                Re: naked switches Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 07:03 -0700
                Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-09 13:44 +0100
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-10 13:28 +0200
                Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-10 13:04 +0100
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-10 15:39 +0200
                Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-10 15:08 +0100
                Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-10 17:34 +0200
                Re: naked switches Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-07-10 17:47 +0100
              Re: naked switches Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-07-11 00:57 -0700
                Re: naked switches Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-07-16 03:51 -0700
        Re: naked switches Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 11:40 -0700
          Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 10:38 +0200
  Re: naked switches Kaz Kylheku <563-365-8930@kylheku.com> - 2021-07-08 17:33 +0000
    Re: naked switches scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-08 17:47 +0000
      Re: naked switches Kaz Kylheku <563-365-8930@kylheku.com> - 2021-07-08 17:58 +0000
        Re: naked switches scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-08 19:13 +0000
          Re: naked switches Kaz Kylheku <563-365-8930@kylheku.com> - 2021-07-09 02:30 +0000
        Re: naked switches David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-09 10:41 +0200
  Re: naked switches Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 18:04 +0200

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