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Re: Good Hardware Tools

From Mat Nieuwenhoven <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Good Hardware Tools
Date 2021-01-04 21:57 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <rt0305$12qh$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <zavrhjmncnay.qkxx1a0.pminews@nntp.aioe.org> <5d124236-5686-4adf-a16c-7524a7482e59n@googlegroups.com> <rss8ak$1nil$1@gioia.aioe.org> <rsullj$2r6$1@dont-email.me> <f60106cd-9582-4a5b-a87f-1007f838260dn@googlegroups.com>

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On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 04:09:06 -0800, Rick C wrote:

> On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 4:03:54 AM UTC-5, Brett wrote:
>> Mat Nieuwenhoven <mni...@zap.a2000.nl> wrote:

>> > Well, I've measured the fridge's energy use for 25 days. Extrapolated
>> > to a year it used 118 kWh, let's say 130 because in summer our
>> > kitchen is warmer.

>> Times 11 cents a kWh in Texas that’s about 14 dollars a year if I have
>> done the math right. Never going to be cost effective to replace.
>> 
>> Can I assume no kids at home as that could multiply the result by four.

Indeed no kids at home normally. But the result doesn't get much higher
even then. I saw a minor increase over the festive season when it was 
used much more.The cooler door bleeps if is it is open for longer than a 
short time (a minute or so).

>> > It ran 38% of the time. If I take freezer and cooler volume together
>> > (330 liter), then it comes out to 0.39 kWh per liter per year.
> This is a very small refrigerator, approx 11 cu ft.  But even so, this
> energy usage is very, very low, about 13.5 watts. 

You mean on average over the year if it were running continuously? White-
good equipment like a fridge or washing machine in the EU must be 
specified in kWh/year based on a prescribed use pattern. Our model is 
specified for 167 kWh/year. It was not even the most efficient in the 
catalog, there were other considerations too. It is this model without 
the no-frost:
https://home.liebherr.com/en/deu/products/household-appliances/floor-
mounted-appliances-for-households/freestanding-fridge-freezers/details/
cnp-4813_89392.html

I guess for most households here this is upper middle class fridge/cooler 
with vertically stacked cool/freeze section. About 60 cm wide which is a 
standard here for kitchen cabinets. You can buy side-by-side freeze/
coolers, but they are much less efficient and not many people have the 
space for it. Those who want a large freezer frequently have a box-type 
(lid on top) freezer in the cellar of garden shed. Our kitchen is 
250x250cm exactly, and I guess that is about normal for standard houses.
But you don't really need much storage because the supermarkets are 
usually close (walking or bicycling distance). I guess if you buy things 
once a week for the whole week you'd need more. But if we have a three-
course meal for 9 persons, indeed space is tight.

> When you open the
> door and the light bulb comes on the energy use quadruples.

3.6 W according to my power meter. The light is a bright LED at the top 
front shining downwards, which illuminates the cooling section very well. 
But even on older fridges we had the bulb was only 5W or so.

> I believe > he already said his unit has no defrost cycle, so that 
alone makes it > very different from 99.9% of the units sold in the US.

The cooling section doesn't need one, because it's minimum temperature is 
+ 1 centigrade, and like I wrote before, there is no air connection 
between freezing and cooling sections. We could get almost the same model 
with no-frost in the freezer section, but it used like 50% more energy, 
and that's not worth it for us. There's not much ice accumulating there 
anyway.

> Even so, I find the numbers to be surprising.

Energy efficiency is very important here. Most people would pay 23 
eurocent/kWh . In test of consumer organizations energy use is a major 
point for any product. Cheaper models are usually worse on energy use per 
liter. I don't think there are double-door models that rely on airflow 
from freezing to cooling section.

Mat Nieuwenhoven

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Thread

Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-10-29 20:17 -0700
  Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-10-29 23:52 -0700
    Re: Good Hardware Tools Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2020-10-30 10:19 +0000
  Re: Good Hardware Tools Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-10-31 00:21 +0000
  Re: Good Hardware Tools Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2020-10-30 17:56 -0700
    Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-10-30 20:40 -0700
  Re: Good Hardware Tools Philip Martel <pmartel@alum.mit.edu> - 2020-10-31 14:54 -0400
    Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-04 20:13 -0800
      Re: Good Hardware Tools kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-11-13 17:10 -0600
        Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-15 19:43 -0800
          Re: Good Hardware Tools Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2020-11-16 19:31 +0000
            Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-17 01:50 -0800
              Re: Good Hardware Tools Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2020-11-17 11:14 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2020-11-18 04:14 +0000
              Re: Good Hardware Tools George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-11-17 12:05 -0500
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-17 10:06 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-11-17 16:02 -0500
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2020-11-17 22:28 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-11-18 11:11 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-11-18 12:40 +0200
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2020-11-18 14:51 +0200
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-11-18 21:46 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-11-18 22:29 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-18 12:45 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-11-18 21:08 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-11-19 00:35 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2020-11-18 16:12 -0500
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-18 17:30 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-18 23:36 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2020-11-19 22:31 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-19 14:43 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2020-11-20 22:13 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-20 18:01 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools James Brakefield <jim.brakefield@ieee.org> - 2020-11-21 11:39 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-18 03:15 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-11-17 22:25 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2020-11-17 16:30 -0500
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-17 14:18 -0800
            Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-23 13:39 +0100
              Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-23 07:49 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-24 08:53 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-24 10:46 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-24 13:46 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-27 08:11 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-27 06:58 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-11-27 10:17 -0500
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-27 08:04 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-28 17:04 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-11-28 09:54 -0700
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-28 09:05 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-29 17:30 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-29 11:10 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-30 08:19 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-30 07:46 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-12-06 17:55 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-06 15:04 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Mat Nieuwenhoven <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2021-01-03 11:03 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 09:03 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 04:09 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Mat Nieuwenhoven <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2021-01-04 21:57 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-01-04 02:55 -0700
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-11-28 20:53 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-28 15:16 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-11-28 20:57 -0500
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-28 18:07 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-11-29 10:43 +0200
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-29 11:00 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-30 08:01 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-30 07:40 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-11-30 15:41 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-29 15:22 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-29 11:04 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-11-29 14:46 -0700
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-29 15:11 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-11-29 23:24 +0000
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-29 17:57 -0800
                Re: Good Hardware Tools "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-11-30 08:32 +0100
                Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-30 08:03 -0800
          Re: Good Hardware Tools Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-16 13:13 -0800
          Re: Good Hardware Tools kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-11-17 22:56 -0600
            Re: Good Hardware Tools Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-11-18 03:20 -0800

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