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Re: Alternative terms for master and slave

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On 17/12/2020 18:04, Theo wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> I assume so too (though these names /are/ used in cryptography), but
>> they are fine examples of what you get when you try to pick terms that
>> have no connotations of one thing controlling other things.  And
>> unfortunately it is no joke that some people and companies are trying to
>> change terms like master/slave in technical usage.
> 
> IMHO words are just words.  We could call the things A and B, Alice and Bob,
> aadvark and buzzard, it doesn't really matter.
> 
> However, it may be the existing choice of words is upsetting to some people. 
> If that's the case, perhaps they should suggest some new words.  If we find
> some words that are less upsetting all round, that's a win.
> 
> Some people say 'well I'm not upset by them so why should we change?'.
> And of course if you don't see the problem, why would you be motivated to do
> so?  So why not leave it to those who want to propose some better
> ones, and let's adopt those?
> 
> What it doesn't need is to blow it up into a culture war demonising about
> 'those people undermining XYZ values' and seek to defend the pre-existing
> state of affairs just because it was pre-existing, rather than any intrinsic
> merits of the situation.
> 

That's all fine.

But what we have with terms such as master/slave bus nodes is that none
(to my knowledge) of the people using them are upset by them, nor are
people who might reasonably be bothered by such words (people who have
been slaves, or had some connection to people who have been slaves).
The people getting their knickers in a twist about these terms are
over-active extremist "social justice warriors" who are not content with
finding things that bother people, but are telling people what should
bother them.  (I have nothing against social justice or political
correctness - I'm ready to fight against all sorts of bigotry or
injustice.  But I am against extremism in any guise - too much of a good
thing is very rarely still a good thing.)

If I were to hear someone say "You know theses boards we are designing?
 It bothers me that some nodes are referred to as master nodes and some
as slave nodes", I'd look for new terms.  If I were to hear "You know
these wireless speakers you make that come in master/slave pairs?  Those
names bother me, because I have often been told that we black people
should still be slaves", I'd look for new terms.

If I hear that people are /actually/ bothered by the use of these terms
in my work or my field, then I'll try to change them.  But until that
time, I see no benefit in changed well-known and well-understood terms
to things without meaning that will cause confusion, error and
unnecessary work.

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Alternative terms for master and slave Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 01:32 -0800
  Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2020-12-15 17:56 +0800
  Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2020-12-15 11:57 +0200
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2020-12-15 17:38 -0500
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 15:33 -0800
  Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-15 11:59 +0100
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-15 15:07 +0000
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-15 16:41 +0100
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-12-15 18:07 +0200
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-15 10:59 -0700
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> - 2020-12-18 15:32 +0100
          Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-18 07:56 -0700
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 08:34 -0800
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-15 19:57 +0100
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-15 19:13 +0000
          Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-16 08:59 +0100
            Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2020-12-17 17:04 +0000
              Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-17 11:35 -0700
              Re: Alternative terms for master and slave David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-12-17 20:25 +0100
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2020-12-15 21:28 +0200
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-12-15 19:37 +0000
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-12-19 15:41 -0600
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-20 17:39 +0200
        Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-12-20 18:17 +0000
          Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-20 23:23 +0200
            Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-20 23:56 +0100
              Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-21 17:29 +0200
                Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-21 23:44 +0100
                Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2020-12-22 23:36 +0200
  Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2020-12-15 06:30 -0700
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-15 22:26 +0100
  Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 08:55 -0800
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Michael Kellett <mk@mkesc.co.uk> - 2020-12-17 07:30 +0000
      Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> - 2020-12-17 17:58 -0800
  Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2020-12-19 02:03 +0000
    Re: Alternative terms for master and slave Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-12-20 01:08 +0100

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