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Re: S/360 model 20

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On 2020-09-10, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 3:50:18 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>>> Several key IBM engineers quit the company and went into
>>> business for themselves or for other computer makers.
>>> Given the high demand for disk space, there was a market
>>> for disk clones.
>> 
>> The same was true with Univac in the late '70s.  A lot of sites
>> went to Control Data, who saw a market opening.  Univac made all
>> sorts of threats about using CDC packs, which nonetheless worked
>> just fine.  Since Univac couldn't meet the demand, they had only
>> themselves to blame (although it was fun to watch the finger-pointing
>> if there was a head crash).
>
> Was that mostly in Minneapolis from the former E.R.A.
> group?  I think they split off to form CDC, and then
> split off again to form Cray.

Dunno.  I remember noting that the name matched that of
the supercomputer manufacturer, but never figured out
whether it really was the (remnants of?) the same company.
(Consider HP.  Now wipe your eyes and blow your nose.)

> Watson Jr talked about his response to competition
> in his memoir.  He admits that he believed it
> was IBM's birthright to rule the computer business
> and resented the upstarts.  Obviously they didn't
> agree.  IBM had to settle a big lawsuit against CDC.
> Watson later realized that big computers were a 
> specialty item, not really suited for mass marketing
> like IBM's product line.

Too bad Watson's attitude is what rules most large
corporations today.  :-(

> While I think Univac was a 'nicer' company than IBM
> in terms of corporate culture, I believe their management
> made many strategic errors over the years that kept
> them well behind IBM.

I agree with the culture part.  If something bad happened
Univac could escalate to get it fixed, but I suspect that
this happened less often at IBM.

> I'm not sure what happened to Burroughs.  They were 
> respected for good engineering.

I had a friend who worked in a Burroughs shop.  Their
MCP looked quite nice, if a bit high-level for my tastes.
They seemed to have a harder time keeping the hardware
running than Univac did, though.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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S/360 model 20 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 00:27 -0400
  Re: S/360 model 20 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 18:34 +0000
    Re: S/360 model 20 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 15:51 -0400
      Re: modern computers and S/360 model 20 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-30 22:07 +0000
        Re: modern computers and S/360 model 20 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 18:32 -0400
          Re: modern computers and S/360 model 20 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 18:38 -0400
            Re: modern computers and S/360 model 20 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 20:37 -0400
        Re: modern computers and S/360 model 20 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-31 08:54 +0000
          Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-31 16:36 +0000
            Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-31 16:57 +0000
            Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-31 17:21 +0000
              Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-31 18:10 +0000
              Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 16:10 -0700
                Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-01 14:14 +0000
                Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-09-01 17:41 +0100
                Re: paging, modern computers and S/360 model 20 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-02 08:34 +0000
          Re: modern computers and S/360 model 20 usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:04 +0000
    Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 04:40 +0000
      Re: S/360 model 20 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-31 22:10 -0700
        Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-01 19:09 +0000
          Re: S/360 model 20 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 15:41 -0400
            Re: S/360 model 20 Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2020-09-03 10:44 -0500
              Re: S/360 model 20 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 11:51 -0400
                Re: S/360 model 20 Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-03 16:41 +0000
              Re: S/360 model 20 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 12:46 -0400
                Re: S/360 model 20 drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-03 13:32 -0500
                Re: S/360 model 20 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 14:44 -0400
                Re: staying up, S/360 model 20 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:28 +0000
          Re: S/360 model 20 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-03 11:09 -0700
            Re: S/360 model 20 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 11:48 -0700
            Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-03 19:49 +0000
              Re: S/360 model 20 Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-09-04 10:06 -0500
                Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-04 16:13 +0000
            Re: S/360 model 20 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 17:30 -0400
            Re: S/360 model 20 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-03 22:55 +0000
            Re: S/360 model 20 Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 19:44 -0700
              Re: S/360 model 20 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-04 23:27 -0700
      Re: S/360 model 20 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:03 -0700
      Re: S/360 model 20 Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2020-09-03 10:42 -0500
        Re: S/360 model 20 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-03 11:12 -0700
          Re: S/360 model 20 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-03 11:48 -0700
          Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-03 19:49 +0000
            Re: S/360 model 20 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-10 11:37 -0700
              Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-10 23:34 +0000
                Re: S/360 model 20 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-10 18:06 -0700
                Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-11 20:41 +0000
                Re: S/360 model 20 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-11 16:21 -0700
                Re: S/360 model 20 Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-09-11 17:26 -0700
                Re: S/360 model 20 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-12 09:30 +0000
              Re: S/360 model 20 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-10 20:39 -0700
                Re: S/360 model 20 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-10 20:46 -0700
          Re: S/360 model 20 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 17:41 -0400
    Re: S/360 model 20 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2020-09-01 11:00 -0700
      Re: S/360 model 20 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-01 17:05 -0700
        Re: S/360 model 20 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-01 20:25 -0400
          Re: S/360 model 20 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-10 20:44 -0700
            Re: S/360 model 20 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-11 00:30 -0400
              Re: S/360 model 20 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-11 06:48 -0700
              Re: S/360 model 20 drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-11 11:02 -0500
                Re: S/360 model 20 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-11 11:18 -0700
              Re: S/360 model 20 "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-10-03 10:29 +0000
                Re: S/360 model 20 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-03 07:38 -0700
                Re: S/360 model 20 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-10-03 16:17 +0000
                Re: S/360 model 20 drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-10-04 11:24 -0500
        Re: S/360 model 20 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 00:50 +0000
      Re: S/360 model 20 Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2020-09-03 10:51 -0500

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