Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???"

From	Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???"
Date	2019-10-08 09:23 +0000
Organization	Netfront http://www.netfront.net/
Message-ID	<qnhkip$7uj$1@adenine.netfront.net> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <qmq268$m5l$1@dont-email.me> <qmtlkc$659$1@news.xmission.com> <qmuunj$vko$1@dont-email.me> <1b986af0-9912-4154-a59b-8fe8acbac72f@googlegroups.com> <slrnqpnb6s.cdo.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

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Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Tue, 2019-10-01, Öö Tiib wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 1 October 2019 10:20:29 UTC+3, David Brown  wrote:
> ...
>>> That is why I say that the programming world has image problems - /not/
>>> that programmers themselves are not inclusive people.
>>
>> I see plenty of female programmers here, in my previous team there was
>> 3.
> 
> I see almost none here.  Some female testers, yes; many women leading
> teams, working with requirements and so on.  But almost no
> programmers.

It should be completely inconsequential how many female (or any other
inconsequential characteristic you may choose) programmers there may
or may not be.

People should be treated as individuals, each with their own unique
talents, experience, knowledge, opinions, qualifications and flaws.
We should form an opinion of a person, or a group of people, only
when we get to know them. We should not form prejudicial opinions
about people based solely on inconsequential external characteristics.
It shouldn't matter what those external characteristics should be.

I consider sentiments like "we need more female programmers" to be
prejudicial and detrimental. People should be treated as individuals,
not as members of some demographic group, like sex or race. When someone
says "we need more female programmers", they are already categorizing
people into slots based in characteristics that should be completely
irrelevant and inconsequential when it comes to the subject in question
(ie. programming in this case).

People should be treated equally, with no discrimination nor preferential
treatmet. People should not be encouraged into a particular hobby or
professional career because of what they are (eg. "female"). All people
should be taught the same things and given the same opportunities, and
allowed to make their own choices about their own lives, hobbies and
careers based on their own interests and talents. People should have no
business in coaxing other people into a particular path, especially if
that coaxing is done for some identity politics reasons.

So, even if there are significantly more male programmers than there
are female ones, my response to that is: So what? Who cares? People
should be free to choose their own hobbies and their own careers.
I don't really care if more males choose programming than females.
It's their choice. Let people make their choice. Stop looking at
people's external characteristics, and start looking at them as that:
People. Unique individuals, not just as members of some particular
group.

A lot of harm is done by trying to coax people into career paths that they
wouldn't have chosen by themselves. It leads to dropping out of schools,
and unhappy lives working on a field they aren't necessarily so interested
in.

Thread

"CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2019-09-26 17:37 -0500
  Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:24 -0700
  Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:54 -0700
    Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-27 19:30 +0200
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-09-28 08:25 +0200
        Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-28 10:35 +0200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 01:51 -0700
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 04:55 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-09-28 22:08 +0100
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Frederick Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 02:16 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-30 02:59 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Frederick Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 03:31 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-30 15:22 +0200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-09-28 13:33 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-09-28 12:37 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 10:09 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 12:48 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-30 19:38 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 13:38 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 13:42 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-01 09:20 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-10-01 00:58 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-01 10:58 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-07 21:23 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-10-07 22:20 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-08 09:23 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-08 19:47 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-10-08 19:53 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-09 07:02 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-09 10:06 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-09 13:57 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-09 17:29 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-09 09:00 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-10-09 11:09 -0400
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-10-09 15:40 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-10-09 17:11 +0100
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-10 09:32 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-10-01 15:20 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" seeplus <boardmounrt@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 05:02 -0700
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-09-28 18:49 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-09-28 19:50 +0200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 10:06 +0000
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 14:21 +0200
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 13:33 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 15:46 +0200
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2019-09-29 15:43 +0100
        Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 05:05 -0700
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-09-28 15:52 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 07:34 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-09-28 16:47 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 08:39 -0700
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2019-09-29 04:40 -0700
    Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-28 07:43 +1200
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 13:01 -0700
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" red floyd <dont.bother@its.invalid> - 2019-09-27 14:38 -0700
        Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-28 10:51 +1200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 16:11 -0700
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 10:17 +0000
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 14:34 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-09-29 09:49 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 12:59 -0400

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