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Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???"

From Manfred <noname@add.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???"
Date 2019-10-01 15:20 +0200
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <qmvjra$67b$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <ln7e5s43he.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <qmpvtk$u09$1@adenine.netfront.net> <qmq268$m5l$1@dont-email.me> <qmtlkc$659$1@news.xmission.com> <qmuunj$vko$1@dont-email.me>

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On 10/1/2019 9:20 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 30/09/2019 21:38, Richard wrote:
>> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>>
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> spake the secret code
>> <qmq268$m5l$1@dont-email.me> thusly:
>>
>>> The programming world has a big problem with its image, and often it is
>>> seen as not being inclusive enough.
>>
>> The programming community is as inclusive as it needs to be in that
>> it doesn't exclude anyone.  You got the skills and the motivation
>> and you're in.  It's as simple as that.
> 
> It is a slightly odd situation.  Individual programmers are, mostly,
> inclusive in that sense.  There are a few who mistreat others from
> prejudice (I've seen it occasionally in c.l.c and c.l.c++, but only
> rarely).  Basically, most programmers are simply not particularly
> interested in others' appearances, personal life, etc. - programmers are
> rarely the most social of people, and they are relatively immune to the
> social pressures that are often behind prejudice.

This part of the story.

> 
> However, when someone looks from the outside at a community of
> programmers, there is a strong homogeneity about it - the solid majority
> will be white males, for example.  (Obviously the dominant racial
> background will be different outside of North America, Europe and
> Australasia, but the gender dominance will not.)  This is a hard barrier
> to entry for people who don't fit the programmer norm.
It is true that the majority may be male, but

   If a young woman
> wants to study programming at university, she will be faced with "Why do
> you want to be a programmer?  It's a guy thing - for nerds who live in
> their parent's basement".
This is where I disagree. I don't think it is realistic.
It is not even realistic any more in jobs like car repairing, metal 
industry or similar stereotypes, much less in a young job market as SW 
development.
I agree with the opinion of Richard on this point.

   Other programmers either don't care, or are
> happy to see a bit of variety in their ranks.
> 
> That is why I say that the programming world has image problems - /not/
> that programmers themselves are not inclusive people.
> 
>>   It has always been this way.
>> Maybe in the deep south during the Jim Crow era, you would be refused
>> a job as a programmer in a "data center", but everyone has access to
>> computers and programming has never been easier and the Jim Crow era
>> is a distant memory to anyone who was alive at the time.
>>
>> At this point, the barrier is one of individual motivation and
>> interest and nothing more.
This is where I agree.

>>
> 
> There is no barrier that we, the programmers themselves, have erected.
> Yet there is still a barrier.
It is a matter of personal interest and motivation, it is not a barrier.

> 
> (You see similar barriers in many other fields.)
>

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"CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2019-09-26 17:37 -0500
  Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:24 -0700
  Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:54 -0700
    Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-27 19:30 +0200
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-09-28 08:25 +0200
        Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-28 10:35 +0200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 01:51 -0700
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 04:55 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-09-28 22:08 +0100
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Frederick Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 02:16 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-30 02:59 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Frederick Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 03:31 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-30 15:22 +0200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-09-28 13:33 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-09-28 12:37 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 10:09 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 12:48 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-30 19:38 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 13:38 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 13:42 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-01 09:20 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-10-01 00:58 -0700
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-01 10:58 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-07 21:23 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-10-07 22:20 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-08 09:23 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-08 19:47 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-10-08 19:53 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-09 07:02 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-09 10:06 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-09 13:57 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-09 17:29 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-09 09:00 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-10-09 11:09 -0400
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-10-09 15:40 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-10-09 17:11 +0100
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-10-10 09:32 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-10-01 15:20 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" seeplus <boardmounrt@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 05:02 -0700
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-09-28 18:49 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-09-28 19:50 +0200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 10:06 +0000
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 14:21 +0200
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 13:33 +0000
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 15:46 +0200
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2019-09-29 15:43 +0100
        Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 05:05 -0700
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-09-28 15:52 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 07:34 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-09-28 16:47 +0200
                Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-28 08:39 -0700
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2019-09-29 04:40 -0700
    Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-28 07:43 +1200
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 13:01 -0700
      Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" red floyd <dont.bother@its.invalid> - 2019-09-27 14:38 -0700
        Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-28 10:51 +1200
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter “De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable”" rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 16:11 -0700
          Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-09-29 10:17 +0000
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-29 14:34 +0200
            Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-09-29 09:49 -0700
              Re: "CppCon 2019: Herb Sutter ???De-fragmenting C++: Making Exceptions and RTTI More Affordable and Usable???" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 12:59 -0400

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