Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman

From	"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman
Date	2019-10-06 12:42 -0700
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<qndg43$1pvj$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <qmoefg$vuf$1@dont-email.me> <qnahie$jdn$1@gioia.aioe.org> <slrnqphmi9.cdo.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid> <qnav0q$gmq$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qncclj$2ps$1@dont-email.me>

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On 10/6/2019 2:37 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 05/10/2019 22:38, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 10/5/2019 11:00 AM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2019-10-05, Manfred wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> I didn't know about these happenings with RMS before reading this
>>>> thread, however after reading your messages and the original email from
>>>> RMS as linked by Tim Rentsch,
>>>
>>> https://itsfoss.com/richard-stallman-controversy/
>>>
>>>> I think that RMS was not a victim of
>>>> anyone else than himself, and by the way he was not an easy target 
>>>> at all.
>>>> I agree with you that his was an attempt to defend Mr. Minsky, but, 
>>>> as I
>>>> see it, the relevant fact here is that what came out of his pen (i.e.
>>>> keyboard) was not a defense, it was just a sick message.
>>>>
>>>> A sensible defense would have been, for example, that there was no
>>>> evidence that Mr. Minsky had actually had any sex with the girl, but
>>>> instead RMS wanted to assert that there would have been nothing wrong
>>>> (not only legally, but also ethically) with a 72 old man having a
>>>> relationship with a 17 years old, and with this happening on Epstein's
>>>> private island btw.
>>>> That, in my opinion, is just sick.
>>>> I mean, in the circumstance a sane person would ask himself: what's
>>>> going on here? and stop.
>>>
>>> Did you really read the mail (linked upthread)?  Where in it does he:
>>>
>>> 1. Defend Minsky?
>>> 2. Say it's ethical for a 72-year old to have sex
>>>     with teenagers?
>>>
>>> Let me summarize it the way I read it:
>>>
>>> - He sets up a likely scenario: Minsky was there, the girl offered
>>>    sex, pretended to be willing, didn't say she was underage. They had
>>>    sex, and no violence was involved.
>>
>> This is gross.
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion on the matter, and what you personally 
> think about sex between people of such different ages.  (Let's stress 
> again that as far as we know, there was no sex, so this is all 
> hypothetical in this particular case.)
> 
> However, accusations of "sexual assault" are about the law, not personal 
> opinions.  I don't know about the law in the USA - or even if this 
> private island is under USA jurisdiction, but in many countries the 
> minimum legal age for sexual consent is 16 (and I never heard of a 
> maximum legal age of consent).  Thus as long as there is mutual consent 
> and no coercion, there is no crime in a 17 year old and a 72 year old 
> having sex in most Western countries.
> 
> If there is coercion, whether by the man in question or by a third 
> party, it's a different matter.  And then you get into questions about 
> how much the man knew, or how much he should have surmised, when 
> considering whether he was knowingly or unwittingly committing a crime. 
> But that would be for courts to decide - not for gossip columns.
> 
> Any question of ethics is entirely dependent on the social norms of the 
> society.  In some societies, sex between consenting participants of such 
> different ages is considered their business alone, and no one else 
> cares.  In some it is unacceptable.  In others, it is acceptable if they 
> are married (in which case consent is probably legally assumed, whether 
> it is real or not) - but if they are not married, it is viewed as a 
> deadly sin.
> 
> So form the opinions you want - but be aware that they are mere 
> opinions, and are personal and not universal.  If you want to judge the 
> character of the people involved, at least do so based on the facts - if 
> you are not sure of the facts, don't use rumours for judgements.
> 

For some reason this reminds me of the fast times at ridgemont high 
movie. The main character totally lied to a guy that looked as if he was 
in his early 20's. She said she was 19. Well, the point is to check ID 
damn it! However, 72 and a teenager, even 19? Gross! ;^o

Thread

OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-27 16:14 +0200
  Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 07:45 -0700
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-09-27 09:22 -0700
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:48 -0700
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-09-28 08:53 -0400
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 09:01 -0400
          Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2019-09-30 19:10 +0200
            Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 13:54 -0400
              Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-10-01 16:24 +1300
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-01 00:34 -0700
            Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-09-30 20:46 -0400
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 12:37 -0700
          Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-28 22:06 +0200
            Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-10-05 18:49 +0200
              Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-05 18:00 +0000
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-05 13:38 -0700
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-06 11:37 +0200
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-06 12:42 -0700
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-07 02:19 -0700
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-10-08 20:14 +0200
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 21:30 -0700
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 22:18 -0700
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-10-05 23:32 +0200
                Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-10-06 06:04 -0700
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-30 12:02 -0700
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-27 16:31 +0000
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:50 -0700
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 01:41 -0700
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-29 06:26 -0700
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-29 07:03 -0700
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-01 23:42 -0700
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-01 23:43 -0700
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-02 02:13 -0700
  Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg) - 2019-09-27 14:58 +0000
  Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-27 16:30 +0000
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-27 19:44 +0200
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-30 12:28 -0700
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-09-30 20:09 +0000
  Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-09-27 10:32 -0700
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-09-27 17:51 +0000
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-27 21:06 +0200
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-28 07:45 +0200
  Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 19:23 +0300
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 13:15 -0400
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-10-03 18:48 +0300
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-03 09:06 -0700
          Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-10-03 16:20 +0000
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-10-03 16:19 +0000
          Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-03 09:24 -0700
  Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-30 22:56 +0200
    Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-09-30 21:12 +0000
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-30 23:41 +0200
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-01 10:49 +0200
      Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-30 23:58 +0200
        Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-10-01 04:17 +0000
          Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-04 12:52 +0000
            Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2019-10-04 06:10 -0700
            Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-10-04 23:58 +0200

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