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Groups > comp.lang.c > #146611
| From | Manfred <noname@add.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman |
| Date | 2019-10-05 23:32 +0200 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <qnb259$vei$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <hJIjF.2248$_T2.371@fx14.iad> <ee374657-1b6d-48f3-88af-65641a13157b@googlegroups.com> <qmoefg$vuf$1@dont-email.me> <qnahie$jdn$1@gioia.aioe.org> <slrnqphmi9.cdo.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid> |
On 10/5/2019 8:00 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote: > On Sat, 2019-10-05, Manfred wrote: > ... >> I didn't know about these happenings with RMS before reading this >> thread, however after reading your messages and the original email from >> RMS as linked by Tim Rentsch, > > https://itsfoss.com/richard-stallman-controversy/ > >> I think that RMS was not a victim of >> anyone else than himself, and by the way he was not an easy target at all. >> I agree with you that his was an attempt to defend Mr. Minsky, but, as I >> see it, the relevant fact here is that what came out of his pen (i.e. >> keyboard) was not a defense, it was just a sick message. >> >> A sensible defense would have been, for example, that there was no >> evidence that Mr. Minsky had actually had any sex with the girl, but >> instead RMS wanted to assert that there would have been nothing wrong >> (not only legally, but also ethically) with a 72 old man having a >> relationship with a 17 years old, and with this happening on Epstein's >> private island btw. >> That, in my opinion, is just sick. >> I mean, in the circumstance a sane person would ask himself: what's >> going on here? and stop. > > Did you really read the mail (linked upthread)? Where in it does he: > > 1. Defend Minsky? It was a mail against the accusations towards Minsky, in this respect it was (meant to be) a defense for him. By the way, let me make clear once again that my critics is not about the defense of Minsky (nothing may have happened with the girl as far as I know). It is about the message of RMS about the alleged scenario. > 2. Say it's ethical for a 72-year old to have sex > with teenagers? He assumed this happened and objected to the accusation by denying it was "assault" as long as it was consensual. My understanding of the term "assault" in the context of underage sex is that it has a broad meaning that may not only cover physical violence or coercion, but also psychological violation of some nature, so, from this perspective denying such a qualification for the act would in my opinion also deny what is mainly unethical about it. > > Let me summarize it the way I read it: > > - He sets up a likely scenario: Minsky was there, the girl offered > sex, pretended to be willing, didn't say she was underage. They had > sex, and no violence was involved. The fact that she was underage was mentioned in the report that he linked, but he did not say anything about it, thus not suggesting that the girl may have been concealing or lying about her age. Granted, in the scenario this might have been likely, but RMS did not state that Minsky could have not been aware of the age of the girl (while in fact this could have been another sort-of sensible defense for him, although the young age would have been evident). In fact, RMS wrote "Let’s presume that was true" after linking the report, with no exception on the girl's age. To the letter of the mail, RMS's objection was stated irrespective of the age of the girl. In my opinion this was a serious fault. > > - He argues that the term "sexual assault" should be reserved for > worse acts and writes aboid "accusation inflation". I am not a lawyer, that is why I made my point about ethics, not law, but in my opinion, sex with a teenager by some old person can be seen as "assault" even if it is consensual and with no physical violence. There is such a disproportion in the level of maturity and awareness that some level of abuse (possibly psychological) does happen anyway, I believe. > > - And, that applying the term to Minsky is an "injustice". > He doesn't say what term should be applied instead. I fact, I think he should have stigmatized the alleged behavior. > > I do not wish to continue this off-topic thread, but I can't help > pointing out obvious disinformation. I don't think it was disinformation, but I agree it is off-topic. > > /Jorgen >
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OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-27 16:14 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 07:45 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-09-27 09:22 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:48 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-09-28 08:53 -0400
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 09:01 -0400
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2019-09-30 19:10 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 13:54 -0400
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-10-01 16:24 +1300
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-01 00:34 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-09-30 20:46 -0400
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 12:37 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-28 22:06 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-10-05 18:49 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-05 18:00 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-05 13:38 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-06 11:37 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-06 12:42 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-10-07 02:19 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-10-08 20:14 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 21:30 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2019-10-08 22:18 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-10-05 23:32 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-10-06 06:04 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-30 12:02 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-27 16:31 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-27 09:50 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-28 01:41 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-29 06:26 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-09-29 07:03 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-01 23:42 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-10-01 23:43 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-02 02:13 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg) - 2019-09-27 14:58 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-27 16:30 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-27 19:44 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-30 12:28 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-09-30 20:09 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-09-27 10:32 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-09-27 17:51 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-27 21:06 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-28 07:45 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 19:23 +0300
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 13:15 -0400
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-10-03 18:48 +0300
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-03 09:06 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-10-03 16:20 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-10-03 16:19 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2019-10-03 09:24 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-30 22:56 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-09-30 21:12 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-30 23:41 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-10-01 10:49 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-09-30 23:58 +0200
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-10-01 04:17 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-10-04 12:52 +0000
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2019-10-04 06:10 -0700
Re: OT: Richard Mathew Stallman: an exchange of emails jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2019-10-04 23:58 +0200
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