Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how?

From	"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how?
Date	2019-06-05 13:53 -0700
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<qd9a3l$upu$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(11 earlier) <e736450f-cb1e-4061-ae3c-091808102aff@googlegroups.com> <24945ada-c036-4b67-91a3-714f0ff5e5ef@googlegroups.com> <87r2891i5d.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <qd63o0$fos$1@dont-email.me> <3a3631e7-df49-4301-82de-f8a836af040f@googlegroups.com>

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On 6/5/2019 12:41 PM, jadill33@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:46:16 AM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 6/4/2019 11:31 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> By choosing a random point around the unit circle on the ZX, XY,
>>>> YZ planes I obtain three angles which give me three points.  Each
>>>> of those points is at a random location around the unit circle in
>>>> its plane.  It would address all of the points in the set of points
>>>> that are the unit sphere's surface.
>>>
>>> The points your posted code picks are not all on the sphere.  You need
>>> to normalise these vectors too, and the result is very much not a
>>> uniform distribution.  You are correct that every point on the sphere
>>> (AKA direction) has non-zero probability (i.e. could be picked) but
>>> there are much simpler ways to do that (and with less bias).
>>
>> I have no doubts that you and James are correct, and that my beliefs
>> here are wrong, but I have a hard time visualizing it through words.
>>
>> If there's a graphic or video I can see it may help.
>>
>>> In spherical polar coordinates, only two angles are needed to specify a
>>> point on the unit sphere, so the third one is odd.  Taking the sin of
>>> each is even odder.  What method are you thinking of to combine the
>>> three uniformly chosen angle into a point on the sphere?
>>
>> To obtain independent X, Y, Z values on their planes.  Each unit
>> circle will project a random point uniformly around resulting in
>> a random point on the unit sphere when projected.
>>
>>>> I'd have to see how it would be skewed visually to wrap my mind
>>>> around it.
>>>
>>> You have a method in mind, but I don't know what it is.  I can show you
>>> the distribution you get taking the sin of the three angles, but I don't
>>> think that's really what you mean.  If you post an actual algorithm, I
>>> can show the distribution.
>>
>> It's probably wrong.  I can't visualize it so it's hard for me to
>> work in those terms.
> 
> Maybe you can visualize it if you take graph paper, create a circle
> and square with the same radius (make it large on graph paper), then for
> mini square on the graph paper on the border of the square, draw a straight
> line from that point to the center of the sphere using a ruler.  Start
> from the middle where the square and the circle intersect and move towards
> the corner.
> 
> You should notice (if you make the circle and square large enough) that as
> your samples along the square approach the corners, 

Agreed.

For what its worth, for Rick: Here is an interactive vector field based 
DLA algorihtm I created that uses a parametric square for the particle 
launching points. My Javascript should work on many browsers, here is a 
link:

http://funwithfractals.atspace.cc/ct_fdla_anime_dynamic_test

Let it run for a little while, and you should see the bias form wrt the 
growth tending to go to the corners of the square first. This happens in 
the cube as well. For what its worth, one can dynamically add new DLA 
seed points by clicking on the screen.

Does that help Rick?



> the angles between
> lines intersecting the circle between points on the interior circle get
> smaller (closer together) than when starting where the square and circle
> intersect.
> 
> That clustering effect means that samples of your uniformly distributed
> random variables along the three cartesian axes outside the sphere
> introduce bias into the distribution of direction vectors, which means that
> this method will not create a random but not uniform distribution of
> direction vectors.
> 
> Does that help?

Thread

quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-30 13:47 -0700
  Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-05-30 13:56 -0700
    Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-05-31 02:08 +0100
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 00:51 -0700
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 02:12 -0700
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-05-31 19:27 +0000
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 12:49 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-05-31 20:36 +0000
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 14:00 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 14:19 -0700
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-05-31 03:56 -0700
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg) - 2019-05-31 11:57 +0000
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-05-31 15:22 +0100
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 07:42 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 08:25 -0700
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 05:20 -0700
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-05-31 13:39 +0100
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-05-31 15:51 +0100
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-03 08:26 -0400
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 05:54 -0700
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 06:15 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 06:23 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-05-31 16:12 +0200
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 08:14 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-05-31 18:18 +0200
                Rick should killfile everybody. (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-05-31 17:39 +0000
                Re: Rick should killfile everybody. (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 10:55 -0700
                Re: Rick should killfile everybody. (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-05-31 22:33 +0100
                Re: Rick should killfile everybody. (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-05-31 16:26 -0700
                Re: Rick should killfile everybody. (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-05-31 23:29 +0000
                Re: Rick should killfile everybody. (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-05-31 23:28 +0000
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? waterwitch86@gmail.com - 2019-06-09 03:47 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-05-31 15:43 +0100
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 08:13 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-05-31 22:49 +0100
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-05-31 23:01 -0400
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 04:10 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-06-01 13:47 +0100
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 12:04 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 12:35 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 12:53 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 14:52 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 15:04 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 15:41 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 15:30 +0300
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 05:30 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 05:39 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-06-03 15:17 +0100
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 07:32 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-06-03 18:09 +0200
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-06-03 21:14 +0100
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 13:18 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-06-03 22:42 +0100
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 16:21 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-03 15:40 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 05:19 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-06-04 16:31 +0100
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 11:48 -0400
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-04 21:09 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-04 21:11 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? jadill33@gmail.com - 2019-06-05 12:41 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? jadill33@gmail.com - 2019-06-05 12:46 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-05 13:53 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-06-05 21:45 +0000
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-05 23:06 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-06-06 06:47 +0000
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-06 18:32 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-06 18:44 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2019-06-05 13:43 +0000
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 07:24 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 13:29 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-06-05 08:05 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-04 19:01 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-06 22:57 -0400
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-06 09:14 -0400
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 08:10 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "F. Russell" <fr@random.info> - 2019-06-06 16:17 +0000
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-06 20:18 -0400
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 23:22 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-07 07:15 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-06-07 00:41 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-09 13:57 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-06-10 08:18 -0400
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-10 08:49 -0400
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-06-10 20:59 -0400
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-10 18:27 -0700
                Rick is a Marine!!! (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-06-10 13:53 +0000
                Re: Rick is a Marine!!! (Was: quick & easy random dir vector, how?) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-10 09:14 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-10 07:24 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-06-03 08:30 -0400
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 06:21 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 06:26 -0700
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 06:33 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 07:00 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 07:14 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 10:15 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 10:40 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 14:01 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 07:07 -0700
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 07:15 -0700
  Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 00:40 +0300
    Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-05-31 14:54 -0700
    Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2019-06-02 23:00 +1000
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-06-03 00:00 -0700
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2019-06-03 17:33 +1000
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 00:55 -0700
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-06-04 10:00 -0700
  Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-01 18:34 -0700
    Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-06-02 03:13 +0100
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-01 21:47 -0700
    Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 13:16 +0300
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 05:38 -0700
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 05:54 -0700
          Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 06:08 -0700
            Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 06:24 -0700
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 06:34 -0700
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 06:43 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 07:06 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 13:12 -0700
              Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-02 06:58 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-06-02 14:08 +0000
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-02 21:56 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-02 21:56 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 02:47 -0700
                Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson_invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-06-07 01:32 -0700
  Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "F. Russell" <frussell@random.info> - 2019-06-03 12:33 +0000
    Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 07:36 -0700
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? "F. Russell" <frussell@random.info> - 2019-06-03 14:46 +0000
        Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 08:13 -0700
      Re: quick & easy random dir vector, how? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 07:51 -0700

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