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Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of running thread

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On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 10:34:04PM +0000, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> ----- On Jan 5, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Paul E. McKenney paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 05:40:18PM +0000, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 05:31:45PM +0000, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> >> > For instance, an application could create a linked list or hash map
> >> > of thread control structures, which could contain the current CPU
> >> > number of each thread. A dispatch thread could then traverse or
> >> > lookup this structure to see on which CPU each thread is running and
> >> > do work queue dispatch or scheduling decisions accordingly.
> >> 
> >> So, what happens if the linked list is walked from thread X, and we
> >> discover that thread Y is allegedly running on CPU1.  We decide that
> >> we want to dispatch some work on that thread due to it being on CPU1,
> >> so we send an event to thread Y.
> >> 
> >> Thread Y becomes runnable, and the scheduler decides to schedule the
> >> thread on CPU3 instead of CPU1.
> >> 
> >> My point is that the above idea is inherently racy.  The only case
> >> where it isn't racy is when thread Y is bound to CPU1, and so can't
> >> move - but then you'd know that thread Y is on CPU1 and there
> >> wouldn't be a need for the inherent complexity suggested above.
> >> 
> >> The behaviour I've seen on ARM from the scheduler (on a quad CPU
> >> platform, observing the system activity with top reporting the last
> >> CPU number used by each thread) is that threads often migrate
> >> between CPUs - especially in the case of (eg) one or two threads
> >> running in a quad-CPU system.
> >> 
> >> Given that, I'm really not sure what the use of reading and making
> >> decisions on the current CPU number would be within a program -
> >> unless the thread is bound to a particular CPU or group of CPUs,
> >> it seems that you can't rely on being on the reported CPU by the
> >> time the system call returns.
> > 
> > As I understand it, the idea is -not- to eliminate synchronization
> > like we do with per-CPU variables in the kernel, but rather to
> > reduce the average cost of synchronization.  For example, there
> > might be a separate data structure per CPU, each structure guarded
> > by its own lock.  A thread could sample the current running CPU,
> > acquire that CPU's corresponding lock, and operate on that CPU's
> > structure.  This would work correctly even if there was an arbitrarily
> > high number of preemptions/migrations, but would have improved
> > performance (compared to a single global lock) in the common case
> > where there were no preemptions/migrations.
> > 
> > This approach can also be used in conjunction with Paul Turner's
> > per-CPU atomics.
> > 
> > Make sense, or am I missing your point?
> 
> Russell's point is more about accessing a given thread's cpu_cache
> variable from other threads/cores, which is beyond what is needed
> for restartable critical sections.

Fair enough!

> Independently of the usefulness of reading other thread's cpu_cache
> to see their current CPU, I would advocate for checking the cpu_cache
> natural alignment, and return EINVAL if it is not aligned. Even for
> thread-local reads, we care about ensuring there is no load tearing
> when reading this variable. The behavior of the kernel updating this
> variable read by a user-space thread is very similar to having a
> variable updated by a signal handler nested on top of a thread. This
> makes it simpler and reduces the testing state space.

Makes sense to me!

							Thanx, Paul

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[RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 08:10 +0100
  Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com> - 2016-01-05 13:10 +0100
    Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 18:40 +0100
    Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 18:40 +0100
      Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk> - 2016-01-05 18:50 +0100
        Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 18:50 +0100
        Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2016-01-05 22:50 +0100
          Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 23:40 +0100
            Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2016-01-06 00:00 +0100

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