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Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of running thread

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----- On Jan 5, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Paul E. McKenney paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 05:40:18PM +0000, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 05:31:45PM +0000, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
>> > For instance, an application could create a linked list or hash map
>> > of thread control structures, which could contain the current CPU
>> > number of each thread. A dispatch thread could then traverse or
>> > lookup this structure to see on which CPU each thread is running and
>> > do work queue dispatch or scheduling decisions accordingly.
>> 
>> So, what happens if the linked list is walked from thread X, and we
>> discover that thread Y is allegedly running on CPU1.  We decide that
>> we want to dispatch some work on that thread due to it being on CPU1,
>> so we send an event to thread Y.
>> 
>> Thread Y becomes runnable, and the scheduler decides to schedule the
>> thread on CPU3 instead of CPU1.
>> 
>> My point is that the above idea is inherently racy.  The only case
>> where it isn't racy is when thread Y is bound to CPU1, and so can't
>> move - but then you'd know that thread Y is on CPU1 and there
>> wouldn't be a need for the inherent complexity suggested above.
>> 
>> The behaviour I've seen on ARM from the scheduler (on a quad CPU
>> platform, observing the system activity with top reporting the last
>> CPU number used by each thread) is that threads often migrate
>> between CPUs - especially in the case of (eg) one or two threads
>> running in a quad-CPU system.
>> 
>> Given that, I'm really not sure what the use of reading and making
>> decisions on the current CPU number would be within a program -
>> unless the thread is bound to a particular CPU or group of CPUs,
>> it seems that you can't rely on being on the reported CPU by the
>> time the system call returns.
> 
> As I understand it, the idea is -not- to eliminate synchronization
> like we do with per-CPU variables in the kernel, but rather to
> reduce the average cost of synchronization.  For example, there
> might be a separate data structure per CPU, each structure guarded
> by its own lock.  A thread could sample the current running CPU,
> acquire that CPU's corresponding lock, and operate on that CPU's
> structure.  This would work correctly even if there was an arbitrarily
> high number of preemptions/migrations, but would have improved
> performance (compared to a single global lock) in the common case
> where there were no preemptions/migrations.
> 
> This approach can also be used in conjunction with Paul Turner's
> per-CPU atomics.
> 
> Make sense, or am I missing your point?

Russell's point is more about accessing a given thread's cpu_cache
variable from other threads/cores, which is beyond what is needed
for restartable critical sections.

Independently of the usefulness of reading other thread's cpu_cache
to see their current CPU, I would advocate for checking the cpu_cache
natural alignment, and return EINVAL if it is not aligned. Even for
thread-local reads, we care about ensuring there is no load tearing
when reading this variable. The behavior of the kernel updating this
variable read by a user-space thread is very similar to having a
variable updated by a signal handler nested on top of a thread. This
makes it simpler and reduces the testing state space.

Thoughts ?

Thanks,

Mathieu

> 
> 							Thanx, Paul

-- 
Mathieu Desnoyers
EfficiOS Inc.
http://www.efficios.com
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[RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 08:10 +0100
  Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com> - 2016-01-05 13:10 +0100
    Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 18:40 +0100
    Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 18:40 +0100
      Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk> - 2016-01-05 18:50 +0100
        Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 18:50 +0100
        Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2016-01-05 22:50 +0100
          Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> - 2016-01-05 23:40 +0100
            Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] getcpu_cache system call: cache CPU number of  running thread "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2016-01-06 00:00 +0100

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