Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations
Date	2019-03-22 09:22 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<q725vs$pl2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <A4AjE.133834$y65.133545@fx44.iad> <8gAjE.142392$tK1.4950@fx28.am4> <q70f9c$ar7$1@gioia.aioe.org> <7164203b-a47f-4120-a6d0-c3a6b659a738@googlegroups.com> <slrnq97sdk.4jo.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

Show all headers | View raw

On 21/03/2019 21:19, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Thu, 2019-03-21, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> ...
>> I've observed an entire philosophy in many people of the C language
>> that seems to be 100% backward from the way things should be.  I
>> don't know what the cause of that is, and I don't remember seeing
>> it any place else except in some aspects of UNIX/Linux's design.
> 
> From my point of view it's you (and Bart, and a handful of other
> posters) who have it backwards.  Being (it seems to me) more
> interested in new language features than in writing useful programs
> using the existing features.
> 
> If it's any comfort, there seem to be other communities where things
> are how you think they should be: fast-moving languages like Python3,
> Groovy and ... probably many others; I don't keep track.
> 
> (Last thing I heard, PHP had been reworked, and is now considered cool
> again.)
> 

I think you have made an important point here.  There is a need for
languages that change and adapt, and provide newer features.  There is
also a need for languages that are stable, where you can rely on
backwards compatibility, and where you can take old code and have it
work on new tools (baring bugs, of course - nothing in software is perfect).

C is a language where backwards compatibility is of prime concern.  That
is a major strength of the language - but it is also a hinder going
forward, and it is part of the reason why C is /not/ now a good choice
for a lot of programming tasks where it made sense 30 years ago.

Python is a language where backwards compatibility is much less of a
concern, and where it is not guaranteed at all between major versions.
This lets Python move forward and gain new features at a far higher rate
than C.  It also means that older Python code often won't work on newer
Python runtimes, and you can have a lot of challenges mixing old and new
code.

They are different languages, for different purposes, with different
balances.  We need both.

C++, as usual, tries to find a middle ground and keep everyone happy -
having backwards compatibility /and/ steadily more new features.  It
does rather well at it, but this has a cost in complexity and sometimes
rather ugly syntax.  Again, it's a balance - no language can do
everything and suit everyone.

Thread

[ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-03-17 14:45 +0000
  Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-03-17 17:25 +0000
    Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-17 10:59 -0700
  Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2019-03-17 14:16 -0400
    Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-17 18:43 -0400
      Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-17 22:55 +0000
        Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 01:37 +0000
        Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-17 19:46 -0700
          Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-18 08:41 +0100
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 11:20 +0000
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 04:39 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 12:08 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 05:26 -0700
                labels and declarations and debugger breakpoints "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 05:40 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 17:25 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-03-18 19:11 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-19 01:36 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 12:31 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 19:57 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 13:09 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 21:09 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 16:03 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 23:49 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 16:53 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 18:03 -0700
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-18 13:16 +0100
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-03-18 12:30 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-18 13:41 +0100
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 06:54 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 07:05 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 09:07 -0700
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-18 06:46 -0700
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 07:25 -0700
        Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-03-21 17:48 +0100
          Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 10:04 -0700
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 10:34 -0700
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-03-21 20:19 +0000
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-21 14:29 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 10:15 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 13:58 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 15:10 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 15:31 -0700
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-22 09:22 +0100
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 09:28 -0700
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Manfred <invalid@add.invalid> - 2019-03-22 18:15 +0100
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 10:51 -0700
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-22 11:31 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-03-23 17:43 +0100
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-23 13:36 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-23 17:37 -0400
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-25 09:18 -0700
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-22 12:59 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-22 14:03 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-03-23 12:44 +0100
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-03-24 10:10 -0500
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-03-23 17:48 +0100
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 11:32 -0700
          Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-03-21 22:22 -0500
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-03-22 17:45 +0100
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-22 11:13 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-03-23 18:20 +0100
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-23 11:57 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 10:58 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-25 13:17 -0700
      Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-17 16:16 -0700
        Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2019-03-17 19:29 -0400
          Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-17 16:49 -0700
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2019-03-17 19:51 -0400
            Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-17 17:41 -0700
              Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-17 22:53 -0400
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-03-17 21:08 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-17 21:40 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-03-18 05:03 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 02:30 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-18 06:32 -0700
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-03-18 16:06 +0000
                Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-17 22:19 -0700
        Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-03-17 20:07 -0400
  Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-03-17 12:37 -0700
  Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 11:00 +0800
    Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 22:43 +0800
      Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-18 08:00 -0700
        Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 13:11 +0800
          Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-03-19 05:27 +0000
            Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 14:40 +0800
            Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 04:39 -0700
              Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 19:44 +0800
                Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 05:11 -0700
                Re: Use of goto in high-level C programming "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 20:13 +0800
                Re: Use of goto in high-level C programming fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 05:42 -0700
                Re: Use of goto in high-level C programming "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 20:44 +0800
                Re: Use of goto in high-level C programming Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2019-03-20 08:16 +0200
                Re: Use of goto in high-level C programming "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 19:16 +0800
              Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 05:13 -0700
                Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 05:56 -0700
                Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 06:30 -0700
                Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 06:54 -0700
                Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 07:12 -0700
                Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 12:03 -0700
                Re: Telling Fred where to go... (Was: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations) fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 13:33 -0700
  Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 05:17 -0700
    Re: from programming to religion and then.... sex? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 20:23 +0800
      Re: from programming to religion and then.... sex? fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 05:40 -0700
        Re: from programming to religion and then.... sex? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 20:46 +0800
          Re: from programming to religion and then.... sex? fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 06:30 -0700
            Re: from programming to religion and then.... sex? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 21:36 +0800
              Re: from programming to religion and then.... sex? fir is a sexy shemale <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 07:08 -0700
                Re: from programming to religion and then.... sex? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2019-03-20 19:16 +0800
  Re: [ On topic, amazingtly ]: labels and declarations John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2019-03-19 14:58 -0700

csiph-web