Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached"

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached"
Date	2019-02-13 18:07 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<q41is4$htr$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <a8967391-4f69-462e-8861-497a80a51e3d@googlegroups.com> <lnbm3grm8u.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <8d0f14e9-5fa9-4eba-ae9e-f7c7c6adbd00@googlegroups.com> <87ftsrk7xb.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <ae508b6f-26a7-45b5-90d5-8be18a490d2b@googlegroups.com>

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On 13/02/2019 17:15, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 15:46:54 UTC, Ben Bacarisse  wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 10:55:41 UTC, Keith Thompson  wrote:
>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> [...]
>>>>> "Grammar" has a useful meaning. Don't mistake your difficulties with
>>>>> the concept - and it is quite difficult to use language to talk about
>>>>> itself, with "grammar" not being a useful and important word,
>>>>> in the sense it is used in linguistics.
>>>>> But computer grammars are not full grammars, even in the narrow sense
>>>>> of specifying all the rules of a computer language like C. 
>>>>
>>>> You assert that a "grammar" specifies "all the rules" of C.
>>>>
>>>> I'll ask this one more time.
>>>>
>>>> Malcolm, will you at least acknowledge that most of us use the word
>>>> "grammar" to refer to the syntax in Annex A?  A simple "yes" would be
>>>> sufficient, even if you think we're wrong to use the word that way.
>>>>
>>>> If you're unwilling to acknowledge that, then I will conclude that
>>>> any discussion with you regarding what "grammar" means will be
>>>> useless, and I will encourage everyone else to recognize the same
>>>> thing and stop trying to argue with you.
>>>>
>>> Yes, that's how the C standard uses the term, and how Ben is using it.
>>
>> I think you have fallen in the trap of thinking that everyone who
>> disagrees with you holds the same opinions.
>>
>> I am well-aware of the wider meaning (I posted the definition,
>> remember?).  I am well aware of formal grammars that can be used to
>> specify language semantics (an attribute grammar can give the exact
>> operational semantics for every valid language text).
>>
>> My objections have been very specific to C and its undefined behaviour.
>> They range from details such as "the C grammar" should be reserved for a
>> very narrow meaning, given that this is comp.lang.c, to the fact that
>> undefined behaviour is not a decidable property of a program's text.
>>
> Undefined behaviour creates problems, because a program is accepted
> but not allowed. 

I think you are conflating two, perhaps three things here.

Writing code which may have undefined behaviour /is/ allowed - and while
some people consider that a bad thing, others view it as a good thing.
For example, I see it as a good thing that signed integer overflow is
undefined behaviour in C - it gives the compiler more chance to warn
about errors in the code, and it gives it more chance to optimise
efficiency.  Defining this behaviour could make code less efficient and
would give defined but incorrect and unwanted answers in most cases.

Attempting to /execute/ code with undefined behaviour is a bad thing -
you have no idea what will happen.

In some cases - but certainly not all cases - the compiler may be able
to detect that execution of undefined behaviour is inevitable in the
code, and can then give you a warning or error in a similar manner to
when there is a syntax error.

Also note that "undefined behaviour" in the C standards merely means
that the C standards do not define a behaviour - the hardware, compiler,
host OS, or other things may define the behaviour.

> Normally with grammar you conflate the two things,
> if a sentence is accepted, the language also allows it. But C doesn't 
> allow undefined behaviour, it's a rule of the language.

Please give chapter and verse for that "rule".  3.4.3 merely says:

"""
undefined behavior
behavior, upon use of a nonportable or erroneous program construct or of
erroneous data, for which this International Standard imposes no
requirements
"""

It is not a /language/ that has undefined behaviour, it is /code/ that
has undefined behaviour.  If a function is specified as "int sqrt(int x)
- return the integer square root of a non-negative x" then the behaviour
of the function on "sqrt(-1)" is undefined because no one has defined
its behaviour.  That applies to /any/ language.

> And often it
> can be determined from the text alone, the program must have UB whenever
> it is run.

I would not say "often" - I'd say "occasionally".

(There are some kinds of undefined behaviour which can be determined
reliably at compile time, such as using types incorrectly, mismatching
quotation marks, etc.  These are not included as part of the C grammar
because they would make the grammar large and unwieldy, but could
reasonably be included in a wider definition of "grammar" in that they
can be identified from the text alone.)

> So it's hard to say that we can agree that such programs have
> meaning. Unless we use "grammatical" to mean "accepted by the compiler",
> which is legitimate but, as you said, "vacuous" - I wouldn't go as
> far as that, but it's not a very illuminating way in which to use the
> term, we can just say "compileable".
> When UB can't be determined from the text, it can often be determined 
> quite straighforwardsly by assuming that any data input is possible,
> then the true awfulness of C comes to the fore. 

But that is a completely nonsensical assumption.

Functions, and programs, are specified for a given set of inputs (and
state, if they are stateful).  If the function gives defined behaviour
for all specified inputs, then it is fully defined.  It does not matter
what happens when an invalid input is given.

One of the /beauties/ of C - and a key reason for its success as an
efficient language - is that it does not assume that all people writing
or using functions are morons.  It assumes that they are competent and
honest - and only use functions with appropriate input.  This is only
"awful" if you are an incompetent or dishonest programmer.

That way, you only need to check for inappropriate inputs at the
boundaries - parts of the code which might be used by potentially
incompetent or dishonest people (otherwise known as "users").

> You can't even add
> two integers without sanity checking them first. 

Of course you can.  You just can't do it with integers whose sum is too
big for the type in use.  The same applies to every programming language
- there are no exceptions.

> If you could rely
> on the fact that the program would say "Integer overflow" and terminate
> that would be correct behaviour and OK, but you can't. 

That would not be OK at all.  It would have failed to add the integers.

> But the program
> text is what is defective, and it's not a logical error - number_of_people
> = number_of_men + number_of_women - nothing wrong with that logic,
> the snag is that there are more than 2 billion of us, so it's a problem
> with the way the language has been used. So  in other words it's a grammar 
> error. 

Trying to add two numbers that are too big for their types is a
programmer error.  It is not a fault of the language, nor is it a
grammar error.

And if you are talking about 32-bit signed integers here, and adding 2
billion to 2 billion, there is /no/ correct answer.  It does not matter
whether you return -294,967,296, or an error message, or crash the
computer, or launch nasal daemons - the answer is incorrect.

> Then sometimes UB can't be determined except by running the program. 
> However it can always be removed (write a C interpreter and cut and
> paste the text).

It can be removed by writing correct code in the first place - or by
using functions according to their specifications.

Thread

"...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 10:50 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-29 20:30 +0100
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:47 -0800
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:36 -0800
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 18:48 -0800
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-01-30 05:48 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 14:06 -0800
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 15:07 +0100
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 06:42 -0800
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 17:12 +0100
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-01-30 14:42 +0000
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 11:19 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 11:57 -0800
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:32 -0800
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:24 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 12:13 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-29 12:20 -0800
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 15:08 -0800
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-29 21:38 -0500
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 19:01 -0800
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 11:27 +0000
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 04:18 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 11:00 -0800
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:18 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 14:34 -0800
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 23:12 +0000
            Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 15:44 +1300
            Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 19:00 -0800
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-01-31 14:32 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 09:44 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-31 23:15 +0100
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:11 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:12 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-29 22:46 +0000
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:57 -0800
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:27 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-01-29 16:48 -0700
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 16:13 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-30 16:57 +0000
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 18:04 +0100
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 17:35 +0000
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-30 19:23 +0100
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-31 03:25 +0000
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-31 08:53 +0100
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-01-31 14:35 +0000
            Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 12:52 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-01-31 18:19 +0300
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 09:55 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-31 19:53 +0000
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-01 13:24 +0300
            Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 12:15 +0000
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-04 12:08 +0300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 11:14 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 03:40 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-04 15:24 +0300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-04 12:03 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:34 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-02-04 22:00 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 21:32 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 12:32 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:06 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 23:30 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 13:27 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 14:36 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 16:50 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 18:44 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 08:23 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-05 12:43 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 09:51 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-05 13:14 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 01:42 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 22:44 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 02:36 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-02-06 17:39 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 10:39 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-07 07:58 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:45 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-26 08:44 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 08:03 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-26 15:29 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-07 07:59 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 12:07 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 03:42 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 13:36 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 04:44 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:40 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:50 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 06:03 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 06:22 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 15:54 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:40 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:56 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 16:04 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 00:26 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-07 09:39 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:57 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 19:55 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-07 23:27 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 16:35 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 02:02 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:10 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 02:37 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:06 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-07 12:01 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 21:55 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 23:17 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 16:36 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 02:04 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-08 01:39 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-08 11:42 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-08 03:07 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-08 03:10 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 13:43 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-08 06:47 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 17:56 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-08 10:27 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 05:01 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-10 16:51 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 09:14 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 02:34 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 09:54 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 12:35 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 14:03 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 14:53 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:36 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 02:57 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:24 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 14:25 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 08:50 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-11 01:48 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 13:53 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-11 08:01 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 17:01 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-11 11:30 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-12 01:40 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 01:51 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-12 12:13 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 03:39 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-12 16:27 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 07:57 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 09:50 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-02-12 21:13 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-12 21:52 -0700
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 01:30 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 11:52 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 03:29 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:26 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 11:41 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-13 05:26 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 05:32 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:34 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-12 16:09 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 08:42 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 04:40 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 02:05 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-13 02:55 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 03:32 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-13 03:36 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:32 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 06:30 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:10 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 07:21 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:38 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-13 11:57 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 21:27 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 00:55 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-14 02:41 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 03:14 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 15:12 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 07:28 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 01:06 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-24 20:47 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-24 13:43 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-25 02:26 -0800
                Wow... (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-25 12:12 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 15:46 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 08:15 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 18:07 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-11 13:43 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-10 12:43 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 13:14 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-10 13:59 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-10 17:50 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 15:17 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-25 17:38 -0700
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 21:40 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-26 01:37 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-11 20:24 -0700
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:41 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 14:47 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-06 07:51 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:12 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:22 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:51 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:33 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 21:24 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 00:24 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 14:13 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 08:56 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 23:59 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 00:15 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 08:25 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 11:51 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 14:41 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 14:17 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 06:37 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 16:10 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 14:48 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:09 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-05 10:19 +1300
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-04 22:05 -0800
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 12:10 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 08:47 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-12 12:41 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 20:55 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 10:07 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 21:53 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 11:01 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 15:09 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-16 16:33 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 16:51 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 16:52 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-16 18:20 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-16 20:00 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 08:54 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 23:23 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 12:31 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 00:34 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 14:26 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 01:45 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 20:12 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 11:23 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-02-12 23:00 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-12 14:12 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 22:44 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 23:32 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 12:51 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 01:13 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-14 07:39 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 19:54 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-14 16:30 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 13:17 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 15:19 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 14:45 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 16:10 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 16:38 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:24 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 07:17 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:28 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 12:05 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-15 01:48 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-14 06:29 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-14 14:19 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 01:33 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-02-18 19:33 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 18:53 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 19:05 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-18 20:11 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 19:25 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-18 21:39 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 19:22 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 02:14 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 15:53 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-15 09:27 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 10:02 +0100
                Just an end-user... (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is) reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-13 09:13 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 11:32 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:37 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 14:21 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:32 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 15:18 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:36 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 23:09 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 01:51 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 02:35 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 10:00 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 12:26 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 15:22 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 15:02 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 16:23 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 17:03 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:41 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 21:23 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-15 10:38 +1300
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 22:53 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-14 08:19 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:45 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 02:32 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 11:51 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 16:47 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 17:18 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 17:48 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 19:26 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-02-14 20:21 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 21:20 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 22:24 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 00:18 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 01:29 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 08:14 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-15 07:03 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-15 04:42 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-15 05:26 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 16:37 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:24 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 14:07 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-15 07:02 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 17:06 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 08:10 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 21:45 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 14:16 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 15:04 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-26 15:26 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-26 12:06 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-26 21:05 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-26 13:55 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-27 06:41 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-27 12:33 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-27 08:18 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-27 14:02 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 21:18 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-27 02:41 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-02-26 19:13 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 22:29 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 09:33 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-27 07:41 -0500
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 14:15 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-27 07:02 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 17:18 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-28 15:05 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-07 11:24 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-21 11:13 +0000
                Re: Readability (was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached") Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-21 23:25 -0700
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-24 03:01 -0700
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:03 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-26 17:38 +1300
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-04 21:31 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-02-01 02:38 +0000
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 01:57 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-01 13:26 +0300
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 07:18 -0500
            The look of C (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is) reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-01 14:26 +0000
            Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 14:32 +0000
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 06:54 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-01 16:42 +0100
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:56 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 18:09 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:31 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:58 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-01 12:47 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-02 16:18 +0100
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-01 21:52 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 23:52 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-02 01:00 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-01 16:41 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-02 02:00 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 15:10 -0800
            Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-02-01 14:36 +0000
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 07:05 -0800
            Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:30 -0800
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-26 12:37 +0000
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 09:09 -0800
              Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 05:50 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 09:06 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-06 10:48 -0800
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-23 10:27 -0700
                Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 12:14 -0700
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:43 -0800
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-31 03:46 +0000
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 22:49 -0500
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 20:08 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 09:11 -0800
  Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2019-02-19 10:23 -0800
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-19 22:55 +0100
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-19 15:48 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-20 00:10 +0000
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-19 16:42 -0800
        Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-20 13:05 +0100
          Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-20 10:30 -0600
    Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-19 16:05 -0600
      Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-19 18:19 -0600

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