Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

From	Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Another system management tool to disappear.
Date	2015-08-29 16:00 +0200
Message-ID	<q2OPL-3Bw-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<q2tBF-71T-33@gated-at.bofh.it> <q2O3o-2Gr-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <q2OmK-32O-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:24:52 Reco wrote:

>  Hi.
>
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:55:00 -0400
>
> Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday 29 August 2015 06:18:56 Reco wrote:
> > >  Hi.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200
> > >
> > > Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > > To:
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the
> > > > > problem is that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear.
> > > > > On one hand it's supposed *to open a new session* and change a
> > > > > number of execution context parameters (uid, gid, env, ...),
> > > > > and on the other it's supposed to inherit a lot concepts from
> > > > > the originating session (tty, cgroup, audit, ...).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm kind of surprised that the bug was not closed as WONTFIX.
> > > > > su(1) is not a "full login", but it's not supposed to provide
> > > > > one anyway.
> > > >
> > > > su - <name>
> > > >
> > > > Has always worked fine for me. What's the problem?
> > >
> > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 says:
> > >
> > > su[1980]: pam_systemd(su-l:session): Cannot create session:
> > > Already running in a session
> > >
> > > Why the bug report implies that pam_systemd shoud create a new
> > > 'session' (whatever it means by 'session') *and* set some obscure
> > > environment variables is beyond me. Especially since su(1)
> > > directly says that su should not create session, it should reuse
> > > an existing one.
> >
> > Now I am again confused.  As the admin for my 4 machine home
> > network, there are things that run as other users, so I'll use
> > amanda, the backup program as an example here.
>
> Welcome to the club. I'm confused by this bugreport too.
>
> > In order to adjust any of its configuration, and do it without
> > mucking with file ownerships & permissions, I much first do a sudo
> > -i to make me an immortal root.  Then I can either "su amanda", or
> > su amanda -c "geany filename" so that for the duration of that
> > commands execution, I am the user amanda.  Some distro's setup a
> > "backup" group and make amanda a member, but those distro's do not
> > always preserve the amanda tenet of running with just enough
> > permissions to get the job done, so I tend to steer clear and only
> > install from the tarball.
> >
> > My web page in the sig is also on this machine, all running in
> > another users sandbox, so again to manage that, I have to do the
> > 'become root' bit, then edit and keep track of perms with
> > chown/chmod which I can only do with the sudo -i phantom roor.
>
> Kind of old-fashioned for my taste (I'd use 'sudo -u' in the first
> place), but perfectly sane approach.

ISTR I read that someplace, tried it, but it needed a root password, 
which does not exist on any of these machines, hence the "two stage" 
approach to getting the job done.

> > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will
> > encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines as
> > root full time.  And I don't believe for a millisecond that is the
> > effect intended.
>
> They provide some systemd-specific kludge instead of su. So it's not
> that bad.

I don't recall recognizing that being discussed yet.

> And, given the current systemd adoption rate in Debian, I'd say that
> we, stable users, have 3-4 years before that "machinectl login" thing
> will be available to us.
>
> > So, if su goes away,  how do I accomplish those tasks in a suitable
> > manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox?
>
> If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox
> (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy
> bits). I.e.
>
> busybox su -

Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install.

Thanks.
>
> Reco


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

Thread

Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-28 17:20 +0200
  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 17:30 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 13:40 +0200
      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 13:30 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 14:40 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 21:40 +0200
  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-28 18:00 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 18:20 +0200
      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-08-29 01:50 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 12:20 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 15:10 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 15:30 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-08-29 16:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-08-29 17:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-30 02:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 10:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 14:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 15:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-30 14:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-30 10:50 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-29 15:40 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:30 +0200
  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 23:50 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 00:50 +0200
      Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-08-30 17:10 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 17:30 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-08-30 20:40 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 21:10 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 21:00 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 21:20 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-30 21:50 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 22:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2015-08-31 00:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 06:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 12:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 22:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 16:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 20:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T. J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 22:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 17:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-02 17:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 11:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 14:30 +0200
                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 18:10 +0200
                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-01 03:00 +0200
                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 05:30 +0200
                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2015-09-01 11:40 +0200
                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2015-09-01 15:50 +0200
                Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 16:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-01 21:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 11:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-05 06:00 +0200
                Re: uselessd Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
        Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-30 23:30 +0200
          Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-31 09:50 +0200
            Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 14:40 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-31 14:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 18:00 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 17:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 17:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 18:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 20:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2015-08-31 20:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 21:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 18:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 19:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 19:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-08-31 21:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2015-08-31 21:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-02 10:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 12:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-03 07:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 08:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-03 16:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiatipy.org> - 2015-09-02 12:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-09-02 12:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-09-03 17:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2015-09-03 18:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-09-03 19:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2015-09-03 21:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-03 21:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-09-03 22:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-03 08:30 +0200
                Re: How to exit /bin/sh Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 23:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 18:40 +0200
                Re: "su is really a broken concept" Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-01 02:50 +0200
                Re: "su is really a broken concept" "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 03:00 +0200
                Re: "su is really a broken concept" Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-03 01:20 +0200
                Re: "su is really a broken concept" "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 10:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 20:50 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 21:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 13:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 16:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 16:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 16:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 18:10 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 04:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 15:40 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 16:30 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 02:20 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-03 05:00 +0200
                Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2015-09-03 05:40 +0200
                Re: No-one working on 'su' has stated that they will stop. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 18:30 +0200
                Re: No-one working on 'su' has stated that they will stop. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 07:50 +0200
              Can malware qualify as free software? Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                Re: Can malware qualify as free software? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
                Re: Can malware qualify as free software? Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 18:50 +0200
              Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 10:10 +0200
    Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 03:00 +0200
  Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 15:10 +0200

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