Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.electronics.design > #518846

Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor?

From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor?
Date 2018-10-09 22:52 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <ppjbeh$u9m$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <f6509bcd-8e29-4671-b3f3-a0ceeda939d9@googlegroups.com> <o6ednaRuUaleBybGnZ2dnUU7-LGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <464738e6-e97d-4b3b-b043-a560d83a61cf@googlegroups.com> <pphjrs$1pti$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ppi2gj$lae$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Show all headers | View raw

Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote in news:ppi2gj$lae$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

> On 10/09/18 08:03, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>> gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote in
>> news:464738e6-e97d-4b3b-b043-a560d83a61cf@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 1:58:35 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> On 10/6/18 10:43 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 2:50:27 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs 
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Embedded passives have been around for ages, so that's probably
>>>>>> quite feasible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think they've been around because they are fundamentally
>>>>> different fr
>>> om adding chips.  In the late 70s or early 80s an array processor I
>>> worked on used a 16 or 18 layer board with an "omega" layer for
>>> termination resistors in ECL.  That was basically painted on the
>>> fiberglass between layers.  I expect capacitors would not have been 
so
>>> easy since they require much more height.  Do they add capacitors
>>> between layers now?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not saying it can't be done, just asking if it commonly available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick C.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Embedded passives are normal SMT components iirc.  Dunno how 
they're
>>>> attached.
>>>
>>> As I tried to explain resistors can be printed onto a board layer 
with
>>> virtually no thickness.  Capacitors more than a very few pF can not 
be
>>> added this way.  Inductors are even harder to add if they are more
>>> than a very few uH which can be done via traces on the PCB.  So I'm
>>> not sure why you think normal SMT devices can be added within the
>>> layers of a PCB... at least without creating visible bumps.  Are you
>>> suggesting they make holes in some of the layers to accommodate the
>>> thickness of the SMT parts?  Since you say you don't know how they 
are
>>> attached, I guess you can't answer any of this.
>>>
>>> So what makes you think this is possible?
>>>
>>> Rick C.
>>>
>>
>> We had HVPS designs where we had internal layers milled to create
>> pockets and the PCB house had no problem with it.
>>
>>    Still, this hack was not that and such a change would get caught
>> almost immediately.  PCBs get tested on continuity machines.
> 
> 
> Server m/boards are multilayer and can be 4-5mm thick these days, so
> a 1mmx1mmx0.5mm device could easily be hidden between the layers. A
> few added vias for signal and power.

  That is not the point.  Such an inclusion would get spotted both 
visually and in the testing of the PCBs.
> 
> Not only are the blank boards made China, ie: they have the
> Gerber, drill and layout files, most of the parts are made there as
> well, so they effectively have full control over production from
> design to finished product.

  No.  They are designed and even proven and subsequently approved here.
Modifications would get caught.  ECOs get processed upstream too.

  No...  This is a single (spy) person doing a job on the selected trace 
and adding the part during the build phase and could be done right up to 
the moment it goes into an ESD bag.  If the number of spy folks 
increases, the odds of it getting caught goes up.  It all comes down to 
just what position the culprit holds as well.

> A government organisation with
> unlimited resources could easily interfer with that process at some
> stage.

  Yes...  the ONE location I stated.  ZERO engineering change in the 
gerber or anywhere else.  It comes down to getting a board as soon as it 
gets into production and get it over to the hackers to find the one 
place to put the part, then the info gets fed back to the guy to 
implement...  Easy Peasy.  Chinkaneezy.
> 
> What is interesting about this are all the denials, which suggests
> our own side have been aware of this for some time and may even be
> involved themselves.

(almost off thread topic)(below...  not you)

 There is no way in hell that Sotheby's did not know about the shredder.  
For one thing, it would have to have been triggered, and if hidden away 
for years, any trigger device would not have the juice.  And the 
shredder itself needed juice to feed to painting.  Was the trigger 
device a cellphone?  No...  Sotheby's knew about it.


 Government agencies always wanted back doors


  Which is what I am sure the "intel flaw" was/is.  Update your bios.

> to enable access to systems anyway and this is just one more
> possible pathway...

  No.  The chinese hack is major spy activity, not personal info mining.
> 
> Chris
>

Back to sci.electronics.design | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-05 09:29 +1000
  Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 01:14 +0100
  Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 19:31 -0700
  Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-05 07:27 +0000
    Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Gene Filatov <evgeny.filatov@ieee.org> - 2018-10-05 11:12 +0300
      Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-05 08:41 +0000
  Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-10-05 16:28 +0100
    Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2018-10-05 09:34 -0700
      Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-10-05 20:59 +0100
        Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-05 14:19 -0700
          Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 23:44 +0100
            Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-06 09:58 +1000
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2018-10-06 00:39 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-06 12:50 +1000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-06 08:42 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-06 21:41 +1000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-06 14:59 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-06 09:10 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-06 16:44 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-06 16:46 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 19:34 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2018-10-06 13:46 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 05:12 -0700
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 04:36 -0700
            Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-06 14:50 -0400
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 19:43 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-10-08 13:58 -0400
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-08 20:04 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-09 07:03 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 12:13 +0100
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-09 22:52 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-10 10:06 +1100
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 19:06 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 18:43 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-11 12:16 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Gerhard Hoffmann <ghf@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2018-10-11 14:50 +0200
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-11 13:51 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 08:35 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-11 15:56 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 13:24 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-11 21:24 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 20:43 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-12 07:38 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 08:55 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-12 16:48 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 10:22 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-12 16:49 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-12 16:53 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 10:27 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-12 23:46 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 17:10 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-13 02:13 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 22:29 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-13 09:14 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? +++ATH0 <news@ringpiece.local> - 2018-10-13 14:29 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2018-10-15 16:27 +0100
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 08:28 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 08:27 -0700
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-10 10:04 +1100
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 06:47 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 19:01 -0700
          Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 06:03 +0000
            Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 05:17 -0700
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 15:38 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 19:14 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-07 07:15 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-07 08:13 -0700
          Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-20 07:07 +0000
    Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-05 20:12 -0700
      Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-06 13:42 +1000
        Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-05 21:02 -0700
        Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 06:03 +0000
      Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-06 08:45 +0000
        Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-06 08:51 -0700
          Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-06 16:42 +0000
            Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2018-10-06 19:55 +0300
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2018-10-06 19:29 +0100
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DLUNU <DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@DLU.org> - 2018-10-06 22:41 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2018-10-07 02:07 +0300
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-07 11:56 +1100
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 20:06 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Johnny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2018-10-07 03:46 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 22:04 -0700
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DLUNU <DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@DLU.org> - 2018-10-06 22:40 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2018-10-07 02:05 +0300
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2018-10-07 01:36 +0100
            Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-06 20:14 -0700
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-07 08:07 +0100
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DLUNU <DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@DLU.org> - 2018-10-07 14:09 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-07 08:55 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-08 00:50 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-08 00:51 +0000
          Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 19:23 -0700
            Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DLUNU <DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@DLU.org> - 2018-10-07 13:52 +0000
              Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-07 08:18 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-08 00:52 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-08 00:54 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-07 22:20 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-08 08:20 +0000
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Cows are Nice <nice@cows.moo> - 2018-10-08 08:19 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-08 10:30 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-08 19:57 -0700
                Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-09 06:51 +0000
      Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org - 2018-10-06 08:50 +0000
  Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? jurb6006@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 07:14 -0700
  Re: Supermicro server motherboards with hardware backdoor? Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2018-10-12 08:21 +0200

csiph-web