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Re: worldwide internet threat map

From Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: worldwide internet threat map
Date 2018-10-09 10:42 +0100
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <ppht6a$bfe$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <JMrtD.100509$ZJ2.63301@fx33.iad> <pQrtD.65357$xI1.33910@fx13.iad> <3a1cb179-acbf-4204-97ce-183ac119c5b5@googlegroups.com> <pp5pjm$ih9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <rmddrdhn3ofu527dcfpl1d0glc930q6d7s@4ax.com>

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On 05/10/2018 02:03, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:27:52 +0100, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/10/2018 18:27, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
>>> This thread has turned pretty well south.  Internet security is an
>>> important issue, but talking about trashing pretty much our entire
>>> network system and redesigning all PCs from the ground up is insane.
>>>
>>> JL like simple solutions whether or not they work.  In his little
>>> designs he can try things out, but in things like this he has no real
>>> concept of the magnitude of what he is suggesting.
>>
>> It is a concrete example of the classic maxim that
>>
>> for every complex problem there is a simple *WRONG* answer.
> 
> Oh, I have no illusions that anyone will fix the internet security
> mess in my lifetime. With a zillion IoT devices and international
> espionage, things will only get worse. IBM and Intel and Microsoft
> messed things up too badly to fix any time soon.

I don't think the Intel CPU is all that bad iff you run it in one of the 
segmented protected modes where things can be very tightly controlled. 
The problem is that all modern stuff is predicated on a flat memory 
model where anything can modify anything and code and data are mingled. 
The non-execute bit helps slightly but any good hacker can get round it.

The virtual machine capabilities of todays chips aren't bad either.
> 
> I have some good ideas of how to make things better, but nobody here
> wants to discuss them, or suggest any alternates. This "design" group
> is mostly emotionally hostile to new ideas. Only a few people here are
> capable of brainstorming, or of serious electronic design.

You announce that magic packet inspection by the same invisible 
technology leprechauns that will police the Northern Irish border post 
Brexit will solve all our problems. But they won't. They are a figment 
of your imagination. Just keeping a list of all the patterns of bad code 
is a monumental task and the aggressors would simply encrypt or pad with 
NOOPs here and there to defeat simple signature analysis.

> So, call me an idiot, or suggest a better os and internet
> architecture, and we'll see which group you are in.

OS/2 and Unix seem to do pretty well. It is MickeySoft Windows that is 
the extremely vulnerable one. Apple's OS will run perfectly well on the 
right PC hardware - certain brands of Medion make fine Hackintoshes.

I am no great fan of the Intel chips but they are nothing like as bad as 
you want to paint them. Most of the bugs are in Microsofts software. The 
self same hardware behaves robustly when running Apples dialect of Unix.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

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Thread

worldwide internet threat map TTman <kraken.sankey@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 11:18 +0100
  Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-02 07:07 -0700
    Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-02 08:45 -0700
    Re: worldwide internet threat map Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-02 09:18 -0700
      Re: worldwide internet threat map Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2018-10-02 17:22 +0000
        Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-02 10:28 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-02 15:19 -0400
        Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-02 14:59 -0400
        Re: worldwide internet threat map Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2018-10-03 14:32 -0500
      Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-02 14:51 -0700
        Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-02 23:29 +0100
          Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-02 17:58 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-02 18:08 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-02 19:09 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-02 19:17 -0700
              Re: worldwide internet threat map boB <boB@K7IQ.com> - 2018-10-02 21:17 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map boB <boB@K7IQ.com> - 2018-10-02 23:25 -0700
              Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-03 01:00 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-03 03:21 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-03 05:37 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-03 10:26 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-03 05:42 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-03 10:40 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 01:07 +0100
            Re: worldwide internet threat map Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2018-10-03 14:44 -0500
              Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-03 17:27 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 10:50 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-04 11:38 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 12:11 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 01:03 +0100
              Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-03 17:14 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 10:47 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-04 08:40 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 08:48 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 22:32 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 15:07 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 00:44 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 08:47 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 17:14 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 12:04 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 20:22 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 13:17 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-05 14:28 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2018-10-06 00:17 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2018-10-05 16:53 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 12:08 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-03 00:52 -0400
        Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-02 18:30 -0400
        Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-03 10:23 +0100
          Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-03 05:44 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-03 07:04 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-03 08:29 -0700
              Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-03 10:59 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map boB <boB@K7IQ.com> - 2018-10-03 14:06 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Bert Hickman <bert-hickman@comcast.net> - 2018-10-03 17:20 -0500
                Re: worldwide internet threat map boB <boB@K7IQ.com> - 2018-10-04 00:07 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-03 12:53 -0400
              Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-03 10:20 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-03 20:36 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-03 20:12 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-03 20:26 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 10:53 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 11:04 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-04 08:52 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 13:01 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 13:06 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 13:10 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 10:27 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 20:27 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 20:55 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-04 18:03 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 21:04 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 08:55 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-05 16:12 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 14:00 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 06:03 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 09:22 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 18:48 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Neon John <no@never.com> - 2018-10-06 21:17 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-07 08:22 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-07 08:54 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Neon John <no@never.com> - 2018-10-07 11:56 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 17:18 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 14:04 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 23:41 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-05 15:47 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-06 00:05 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-05 16:12 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2018-10-06 00:24 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-06 12:57 +1000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-06 08:19 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-10-06 22:21 +1000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 09:31 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-06 09:39 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 10:45 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-06 08:13 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-06 09:02 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 09:40 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 11:26 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 11:27 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> - 2018-10-06 18:48 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 11:26 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-09 07:07 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-09 07:19 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 17:11 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-09 09:53 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 20:27 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-09 17:32 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 18:03 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 18:25 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Chris <c@b.a> - 2018-10-11 11:29 +1100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-05 14:47 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 10:47 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-04 18:45 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 19:35 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 08:04 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 09:08 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 18:16 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-05 19:24 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2018-10-05 16:55 +0000
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Neon John <no@never.com> - 2018-10-05 14:50 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-09 10:42 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-09 07:10 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-09 17:27 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-04 18:30 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 21:00 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-04 21:03 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 10:10 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 22:38 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 15:08 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 00:47 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 09:19 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 18:48 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 14:08 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 09:15 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-05 18:55 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-05 14:12 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-05 14:37 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-06 00:01 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 23:18 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 09:52 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 10:53 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-06 20:29 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-09 08:33 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 11:18 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-06 11:20 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-05 19:35 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 05:24 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-06 06:53 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-04 18:12 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 19:04 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-05 09:22 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-05 09:27 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-05 19:45 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-05 19:44 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 17:00 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-10-03 20:42 -0400
                Re: worldwide internet threat map bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2018-10-03 18:31 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 09:23 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-04 09:06 -0700
                Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 17:49 +0100
                Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 10:14 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-03 10:55 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 01:10 +0100
        Re: worldwide internet threat map whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 13:13 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2018-10-03 13:47 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 09:26 +0100
        Re: worldwide internet threat map Neon John <no@never.com> - 2018-10-04 10:22 -0400
          Re: worldwide internet threat map makolber@yahoo.com - 2018-10-04 08:16 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-04 08:44 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-10-04 17:15 +0100
          Re: worldwide internet threat map John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2018-10-04 09:14 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-04 09:31 -0700
        Re: worldwide internet threat map Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-04 07:51 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2018-10-04 08:27 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2018-10-04 09:57 -0700
      Re: worldwide internet threat map Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2018-10-03 14:29 -0500
        Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-03 13:11 -0700
          Re: worldwide internet threat map dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2018-10-03 13:33 -0700
            Re: worldwide internet threat map gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com - 2018-10-03 16:02 -0700
  Re: worldwide internet threat map Cows are Nice <nice@cows.moo> - 2018-10-03 21:49 -0700

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