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Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime?

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benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/19/2018 10:01 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 19 August 2018 19:00:51 UTC+10, Sylvia Else  wrote:
>>>> On 19/08/2018 5:05 PM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, 19 August 2018 16:19:27 UTC+10, Sylvia Else  wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/08/2018 4:08 PM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>>>>>> From first principles what is the definition of spacetime?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How does it support the transmission of light?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Physics doesn't answer "how", it only answers "what".
>>>>> 
>>>>> Certainly conventional physics answers "how" with theories and supportive facts.
>>>>> Like gravity as an universal force (theory) is used to explain *how*
>>>>> things fall to earth (fact).
>>>> 
>>>> That's a misunderstanding of what physics says about the situation. It
>>>> tells us how to calculate what the trajectory of the falling object will
>>>> be. It doesn't tell us why it falls.  To say it falls due to gravity is
>>>> circular, since the theory of gravity is just based on the observation
>>>> that things fall.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> No, it is not based just on that. The theory of gravity about which you
>>> are evidently ignorant, but what was taught to me as physics in school
>>> and followed in my engineering studies, is that every centre of mass
>>> attracts every other centre of mass in the universe, with a force that is
>>> proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to
>>> the square of the distance between them, and the constant of
>>> proportionality is the gravitational constant G. So mathematically the
>>> above theory is expressed as f=mMG/RR where the symbols have their obvious meaning.
>> 
>> Just to give you an idea of the gap, how exactly does a body over HERE
>> exert a force on another body over THERE? Your paragraph above says “it
>> just does”. See the problem?
> 
> And you likewise have no theory other than "magic" either. Saying 
> gravity is caused by waves in nothing at all 

No physicist says that. 

Remember me asking you for a quote of physicists claiming that waves
propagate in nothing at all? Remember you tanking in that?

> is just other way of saying 
> "magic". Truth is nobody From Newton to now really knows the mechanism 
> of gravity. It's all fantasy and speculation which makes the 'magic" 
> explanation as good as any.
> 
> 
>>> The "hows" relating to falling, orbital motion, etc. all follow from the
>>> theory of gravitation.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No mathematical blah, please.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That could be difficult - maybe mere words are not up to the task. Is
>>>>>> science to be so limited?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes. Honesty is there as a must to be followed in conventional physics.
>>>>> Mathematics in conventional physics is only a brief and convenient
>>>>> alternative to making a wordy statement.
>>>> 
>>>> I strongly doubt that any number of words would suffice to precisely
>>>> convey general relativity, or quantum mechanics, or at least not until
>>>> the words were merely a codification of the math, and considerably less
>>>> comprehensible.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mathematics can be used by dishonest people to make fallacious points,
>>>>> for dubious purposes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just follow the scientific methods.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> State your axioms, and build upon them to form a theory.  Then
>>>>>>> validate that theory with experiment. Make valid predictions with the theory.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Axioms? This isn't mathematics. The starting point for physics is the
>>>>>> collection of experimental results.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Axioms, as basic and undisputable units of information, are required
>>>>> everywhere, as we all must agree upon them to start any discussion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If your axiom is that I must accept the speed of light to be
>>>>> independent of the source then with those, like me, who do not accept
>>>>> this, there is no further discussion.
>>>> 
>>>> The constancy of the speed of light is an experimental result. If you do
>>>> not accept it, you must believe that the experimenters are lying or
>>>> incompetent. Perhaps you should do the experiments yourself, though you
>>>> might find them rather demanding to do accurately enough.
>>>> 
>>>> Sylvia.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 23:08 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-19 16:19 +1000
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:05 -0700
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-19 19:00 +1000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-19 02:39 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-19 02:43 -0700
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 06:21 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:45 -0400
              Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 09:53 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:47 +0000
              Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:26 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 17:45 -0700
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:29 -0400
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:26 -0400
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:23 -0400
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:26 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:05 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:47 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:19 -0700
  From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 05:39 -0700
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:41 -0400
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:26 +0000
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 17:32 -0700
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:17 +0000
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-19 13:37 -0500
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:18 -0400
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-21 13:38 -0500
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 18:56 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 17:29 -0700
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 13:38 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 07:01 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:29 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 16:06 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 00:43 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 18:25 -0700
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-20 18:33 -0700
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 12:52 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 11:10 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 18:56 +0000
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 18:59 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 19:44 -0700
              Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 12:21 +0000
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 07:10 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 14:39 +0000
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-22 11:23 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-22 11:42 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 20:43 +0000
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-22 20:17 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-21 15:06 -0500
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 19:58 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 19:28 -0700
  From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 10:14 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:24 -0700
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 13:07 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 13:02 -0700

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