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Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime?

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On 8/19/2018 10:01 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, 19 August 2018 19:00:51 UTC+10, Sylvia Else  wrote:
>>> On 19/08/2018 5:05 PM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, 19 August 2018 16:19:27 UTC+10, Sylvia Else  wrote:
>>>>> On 19/08/2018 4:08 PM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>>>>>  From first principles what is the definition of spacetime?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How does it support the transmission of light?
>>>>>
>>>>> Physics doesn't answer "how", it only answers "what".
>>>>
>>>> Certainly conventional physics answers "how" with theories and supportive facts.
>>>> Like gravity as an universal force (theory) is used to explain *how*
>>>> things fall to earth (fact).
>>>
>>> That's a misunderstanding of what physics says about the situation. It
>>> tells us how to calculate what the trajectory of the falling object will
>>> be. It doesn't tell us why it falls.  To say it falls due to gravity is
>>> circular, since the theory of gravity is just based on the observation
>>> that things fall.
>>
>>
>> No, it is not based just on that. The theory of gravity about which you
>> are evidently ignorant, but what was taught to me as physics in school
>> and followed in my engineering studies, is that every centre of mass
>> attracts every other centre of mass in the universe, with a force that is
>> proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to
>> the square of the distance between them, and the constant of
>> proportionality is the gravitational constant G. So mathematically the
>> above theory is expressed as f=mMG/RR where the symbols have their obvious meaning.
> 
> Just to give you an idea of the gap, how exactly does a body over HERE
> exert a force on another body over THERE? Your paragraph above says “it
> just does”. See the problem?

And you likewise have no theory other than "magic" either. Saying 
gravity is caused by waves in nothing at all is just other way of saying 
"magic". Truth is nobody From Newton to now really knows the mechanism 
of gravity. It's all fantasy and speculation which makes the 'magic" 
explanation as good as any.


>> The "hows" relating to falling, orbital motion, etc. all follow from the
>> theory of gravitation.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No mathematical blah, please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That could be difficult - maybe mere words are not up to the task. Is
>>>>> science to be so limited?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Honesty is there as a must to be followed in conventional physics.
>>>> Mathematics in conventional physics is only a brief and convenient
>>>> alternative to making a wordy statement.
>>>
>>> I strongly doubt that any number of words would suffice to precisely
>>> convey general relativity, or quantum mechanics, or at least not until
>>> the words were merely a codification of the math, and considerably less
>>> comprehensible.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mathematics can be used by dishonest people to make fallacious points,
>>>> for dubious purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just follow the scientific methods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> State your axioms, and build upon them to form a theory.  Then
>>>>>> validate that theory with experiment. Make valid predictions with the theory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Axioms? This isn't mathematics. The starting point for physics is the
>>>>> collection of experimental results.
>>>>
>>>> Axioms, as basic and undisputable units of information, are required
>>>> everywhere, as we all must agree upon them to start any discussion.
>>>>
>>>> If your axiom is that I must accept the speed of light to be
>>>> independent of the source then with those, like me, who do not accept
>>>> this, there is no further discussion.
>>>
>>> The constancy of the speed of light is an experimental result. If you do
>>> not accept it, you must believe that the experimenters are lying or
>>> incompetent. Perhaps you should do the experiments yourself, though you
>>> might find them rather demanding to do accurately enough.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 

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From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 23:08 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-19 16:19 +1000
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:05 -0700
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-19 19:00 +1000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-19 02:39 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-19 02:43 -0700
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 06:21 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:45 -0400
              Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 09:53 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:47 +0000
              Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:26 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 17:45 -0700
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:29 -0400
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:26 -0400
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:23 -0400
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:26 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:05 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:47 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:19 -0700
  From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 05:39 -0700
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:41 -0400
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:26 +0000
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 17:32 -0700
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:17 +0000
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-19 13:37 -0500
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:18 -0400
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-21 13:38 -0500
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 18:56 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 17:29 -0700
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 13:38 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 07:01 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:29 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 16:06 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 00:43 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 18:25 -0700
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-20 18:33 -0700
      Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 12:52 +0000
        Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 11:10 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 18:56 +0000
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 18:59 +0000
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 19:44 -0700
              Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 12:21 +0000
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 07:10 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 14:39 +0000
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-22 11:23 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-22 11:42 -0700
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-22 20:43 +0000
                Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-22 20:17 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-21 15:06 -0500
            Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 19:58 -0700
          Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 19:28 -0700
  From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 10:14 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:24 -0700
    Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 13:07 -0700
  Re: From first principles what is the definition of spacetime? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 13:02 -0700

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