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Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch.

From Doc O'Leary <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com>
Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.science, sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.space.policy
Subject Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch.
Date 2018-06-12 15:20 +0000
Organization Subsume Technologies, Inc.
Message-ID <pfoobm$hm7$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <MPG.3585fc5ae6671292989ac1@news.eternal-september.org> <pfkpim$sa0$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.35882bbe599c0062989aca@news.eternal-september.org> <pfmubd$62p$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.35896e274b8718a3989acd@news.eternal-september.org>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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For your reference, records indicate that 
Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote:

> I have an engineering degree.  When developing new things, engineers 
> work with what they have today because they've got schedules and 
> deadlines to meet.  You're talking about technologies not yet invented.  
> That's research, not development.  The two are not the same.

I never claimed they were.  The topic of the thread is *not* “what can 
I build today”, it’s “Towards routine, reusable space launch.”  That 
has nothing to do with today’s technology, and nobody has made the 
case that continued use of rockets (even reusable ones) can make it 
happen.

> Two different sets of requirements lead to two completely different 
> vehicles.  That's how engineering optimization works.

Indeed.  Which is why I argue that rockets alone are unlikely to be the 
only path to space.  And they *definitely* are not the path to deep 
space.

> What you are trying to get me to admit is that eventually, some day, 
> there may be something better.  Sure, there might.  Also, monkeys might 
> fly out of my butt.

Really?  You think new technologies are butt-monkeys unlikely?  Then 
let’s get you retired, man, because you are *not* allowing your field 
to innovate nearly as much as it needs to.

> I'm not waiting for sci-fi to become reality.  I'm 
> working with what I've got today.  Again, that's what engineers do. 

Then you should be looking in engineering newsgroups for that kind of 
discussion.  Science is about more than just using your current tools.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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Towards routine, reusable space launch. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOCKail.com> - 2018-06-07 16:24 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOCKail.com> - 2018-06-07 16:47 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 23:24 -0700
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-08 13:10 +0000
    Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 20:47 -0700
      Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-09 17:19 +0000
        Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-09 16:02 -0400
          Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 03:16 +0000
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-10 23:19 -0500
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-11 05:25 +0000
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 22:18 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 20:52 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-12 06:34 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-12 14:36 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:29 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-12 19:00 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-13 02:15 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 01:27 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-13 06:46 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-13 12:57 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 14:35 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-13 17:55 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 21:44 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-14 22:02 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-13 19:39 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 21:53 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-06-14 15:15 +0200
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 06:32 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. mvp@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) - 2018-06-14 22:26 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-14 19:46 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-15 07:56 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-15 19:21 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-15 19:18 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-15 21:05 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-16 10:06 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-16 13:21 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-16 13:57 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-16 14:19 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. mvp@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) - 2018-06-19 18:38 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-19 21:27 -0600
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-15 22:13 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 20:34 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-16 09:54 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-18 13:45 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-18 21:06 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 20:00 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-19 19:45 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-19 22:12 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-20 20:21 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 17:13 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-20 20:34 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-21 06:26 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-21 13:35 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-21 20:57 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-21 23:22 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-22 07:18 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-22 17:45 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-22 19:58 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-23 03:39 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-23 08:38 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-23 17:18 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-23 09:58 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-24 00:53 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-23 08:34 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-18 22:17 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 00:45 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-19 15:58 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 14:38 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-20 15:42 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-20 16:58 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-25 20:44 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 17:07 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-21 23:24 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-21 21:38 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-19 21:35 -0600
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-19 17:01 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-21 22:39 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-14 04:47 -0400
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 04:00 -0700
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 22:35 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 20:58 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-12 15:00 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:36 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-12 20:08 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 22:12 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) - 2018-06-15 18:59 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 12:13 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) - 2018-06-18 20:36 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 19:57 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) - 2018-06-25 21:17 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-25 15:52 -0700
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-11 07:49 -0400
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-11 16:36 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-11 19:38 -0600
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 22:50 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 21:03 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-12 06:44 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-12 09:57 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-12 17:52 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-12 15:20 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. David Ellis <daellis94@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 11:30 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:47 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-12 19:43 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:52 -0700
        Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 16:05 -0700
    Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-09 09:34 -0600
      Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-09 15:56 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOCKail.com> - 2018-06-08 18:06 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. frank.scrooby@gmail.com - 2018-06-20 23:45 -0700
    Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-25 21:02 +0000

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