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Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch.

From Doc O'Leary <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com>
Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.science, sci.astro, sci.physics, sci.space.policy
Subject Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch.
Date 2018-06-11 03:16 +0000
Organization Subsume Technologies, Inc.
Message-ID <pfkpim$sa0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <pfc49a$gv2$1@dont-email.me> <pfdv8o$k21$1@dont-email.me> <k4jmhddske1ucrd72mv5qe88nbeu8stf2r@4ax.com> <pfh27b$ghr$1@dont-email.me> <MPG.3585fc5ae6671292989ac1@news.eternal-september.org>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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For your reference, records indicate that 
Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote:

> High altitude balloon launch is a tad risky and only gains you a bit of 
> altitude and zero velocity.  Not worth the complexity and cost, IMHO.

Like I said, it might not *currently* be viable, but as an alternative 
technology it brings new sets of trade-offs to the table such that a few 
tweaks here and there might make it viable for certain kinds of launches 
(e.g., “bulky” items that are hard to make aerodynamically efficient 
benefit from starting at the highest possible altitude).

> BFR/BFS is planned to be "zero waste" from the very beginning.  Fully 
> reusable TSTO with "gas and go" like operations. 

But that’s not the true “zero waste” I was talking about.  Any resources 
that you’re sending up *and* down, along with any fuels you burn to do it 
safely, is a waste.  It may be a necessary waste for the current launch 
technologies, so it’s good to minimize it, but I still say it’s a good 
idea to think about ways to shoot stuff into space that doesn’t involve a 
lot of heavy stuff coming back to Earth.

> Also don't count out Blue Origin.  They're off to a slow start, but have 
> a very reliable funding source in Jeff Bezos ($1 billion a year).

I’m not counting them out, but when the topic is cost/efficiency, the 
basic question is still how much energy is being expended to get each 
kg into orbit.  So long as the idea is still to send a lot of 
supporting (non-fuel) heavy stuff up only to have most of it come back 
down, there are wastes that a new technology can come in and improve 
upon.

> Besides, how you going to get those space elevator bits into orbit?  
> That's right, conventional (hopefully reusable) launch vehicles. 

Hope for bigger things.  I fully believe that, for a society to be 
advanced enough to make a space elevator project realistic, it’s value 
would be more incremental than revolutionary.  Rockets are the best we 
have right now, but we’re stuffed if that’s the best we can do.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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Towards routine, reusable space launch. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOCKail.com> - 2018-06-07 16:24 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOCKail.com> - 2018-06-07 16:47 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 23:24 -0700
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-08 13:10 +0000
    Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 20:47 -0700
      Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-09 17:19 +0000
        Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-09 16:02 -0400
          Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 03:16 +0000
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-10 23:19 -0500
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-11 05:25 +0000
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 22:18 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 20:52 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-12 06:34 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-12 14:36 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:29 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-12 19:00 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-13 02:15 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 01:27 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-13 06:46 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-13 12:57 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 14:35 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-13 17:55 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 21:44 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-14 22:02 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-13 19:39 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 21:53 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-06-14 15:15 +0200
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 06:32 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. mvp@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) - 2018-06-14 22:26 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-14 19:46 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-15 07:56 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-15 19:21 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-15 19:18 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-15 21:05 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-16 10:06 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-16 13:21 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-16 13:57 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-16 14:19 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. mvp@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) - 2018-06-19 18:38 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-19 21:27 -0600
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-15 22:13 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 20:34 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-16 09:54 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-18 13:45 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-18 21:06 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 20:00 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-19 19:45 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-19 22:12 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-20 20:21 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 17:13 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-20 20:34 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-21 06:26 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-21 13:35 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-21 20:57 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-21 23:22 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-22 07:18 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-22 17:45 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-22 19:58 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-23 03:39 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-23 08:38 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-23 17:18 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-23 09:58 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-24 00:53 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-23 08:34 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-18 22:17 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 00:45 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-19 15:58 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 14:38 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-20 15:42 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-06-20 16:58 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-25 20:44 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 17:07 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-21 23:24 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-21 21:38 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-19 21:35 -0600
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-19 17:01 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-21 22:39 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-14 04:47 -0400
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 04:00 -0700
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 22:35 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 20:58 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-12 15:00 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:36 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2018-06-12 20:08 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 22:12 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) - 2018-06-15 18:59 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 12:13 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) - 2018-06-18 20:36 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 19:57 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. willner@cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) - 2018-06-25 21:17 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-25 15:52 -0700
            Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-11 07:49 -0400
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-11 16:36 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-11 19:38 -0600
              Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-11 22:50 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 21:03 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-12 06:44 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-12 09:57 -0500
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-12 17:52 -0400
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> - 2018-06-12 15:20 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. David Ellis <daellis94@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 11:30 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:47 -0700
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-12 19:43 +0000
                Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 14:52 -0700
        Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 16:05 -0700
    Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-06-09 09:34 -0600
      Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2018-06-09 15:56 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOCKail.com> - 2018-06-08 18:06 -0400
  Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. frank.scrooby@gmail.com - 2018-06-20 23:45 -0700
    Re: Towards routine, reusable space launch. Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2018-06-25 21:02 +0000

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