Re: The case AGAINST C

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: The case AGAINST C
Date	2018-05-09 23:40 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<pcvpsv$a29$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(10 earlier) <85p3fd11leu4nso76rh9qqmb6utbffcssm@4ax.com> <pct5mc$o5l$1@dont-email.me> <e33cbbab-86d4-43b3-a659-7d4957755b41@googlegroups.com> <pcta3j$hlh$2@dont-email.me> <8c71546f-91fc-4184-83a8-bfc537c85d69@googlegroups.com>

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On 09/05/18 17:11, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:59:05 PM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>> I would still not want to release a system where there is a real chance
>> of the software hanging and being so dangerous that you need an
>> emergency stop.
> 
> There may be essentially zero chance of the software hanging from any kind
> of normal stimulus.  On the other hand, it's not possible to predict every
> kind of abnormal stimulus a system might receive.  One might design a system
> to survive a 50,000-volt ESD spike with no disruption but have it get hit
> with a 60,000-volt spike.  Or one might design it to withstand a collision
> with a pallet mover but have it get hit by a fully-loaded fork truck.  If
> an automatic guided vehicle gets rammed by a fork truck with enough force to
> knock something loose inside the memory system, I'd rather have a watchdog
> shut the thing down than have it start randomly piloting itself who knows
> where.
> 

This is simply nonsense.

If you want a system to survive 60 kV spikes, you design it and test it 
for the purpose.

When specifying things like this, you usually add safety margins.  If 
the end user is expecting a maximum of 30 kV spikes, then you might 
specify it should survive fine at 50 kV to give an error margin and 
longer lifetimes.  So the design and testing is for 50 kV.  Some 
experimental tests will also be done at higher levels, to make sure the 
design is clearly within specifications.  But the end user has bought a 
device rated for 30 kV, and must ensure that it is used within those limits.

You do not /ever/ specify "as safe as possible" if you are doing serious 
engineering and development.  You never say "as cheap as possible", "as 
fast as possible" - these are all signs of amateurs who don't understand 
engineering.

You /may/ specify your system to be as safe as reasonably possible 
within constraints for budget, size, time, etc., but you base your 
requirements on an analysis of what can go wrong, how likely it is, and 
what the consequences of the failure are.  If there is no way for your 
system to be exposed to more than 30 kV other than a lightning strike 
that burns down the building, development to protect at higher levels 
(beyond a reasonable margin) is wasted time, money and effort - and it 
probably results in a /worse/ product.

The reality of extra "safety" features, extra checks, etc., is that 
these are rarely tested - it is rarely /possible/ to test them properly. 
  But it is certainly possible for failures or bugs in them to cause 
other problems.  Unnecessary features is a safety and reliability 
problem - I have seen products recalled due to problems in pointless 
extra checks in code and in hardware.

Thread

The case AGAINST C Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-30 02:10 +0000
  Re: The case AGAINST C cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2018-04-30 03:14 +0000
    Re: The case AGAINST C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-30 05:48 -0700
    Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 14:58 +0100
    Re: The case AGAINST C Davs <johndemeert0@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 04:18 -0700
      Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 05:26 -0700
      Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 11:21 -0400
        Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 09:21 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-07 12:13 -0500
          Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 10:24 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 13:27 -0400
            Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-07 17:33 +0000
              Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 13:50 -0400
              Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 10:56 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 09:26 +0200
          Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 09:19 +0200
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 00:42 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 06:54 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 07:24 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 17:15 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 09:31 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 18:48 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 10:33 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:36 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 15:08 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 00:56 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 16:17 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-08 11:09 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:43 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 15:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 00:58 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-09 08:11 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 08:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 11:45 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 13:03 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 23:40 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-09 15:48 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-10 13:48 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-10 08:28 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-11 10:06 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 02:22 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 05:29 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-11 13:31 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-11 15:47 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-11 09:16 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-12 17:43 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-12 14:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 00:13 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 01:31 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-11 18:01 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-10 08:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-09 09:29 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-10 08:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 04:43 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-08 21:24 -0400
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 09:10 +0200
            Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-08 19:52 +0000
              Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:48 +0200
  Re: The case AGAINST C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-29 22:07 -0700
  Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 12:22 +0100
    Re: The case AGAINST C Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-04-30 12:08 +0000
      Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 13:38 +0100
        Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 06:05 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 07:39 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C Ed Kellett <e@kellett.im> - 2018-04-30 15:53 +0100
          Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 08:14 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 21:26 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 09:00 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 04:58 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 18:07 +0100
            Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 05:33 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 05:58 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 06:27 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 14:37 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-05-01 13:41 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 16:48 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 10:11 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 11:00 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 19:26 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 11:40 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 12:53 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 22:03 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:10 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 14:21 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:26 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 15:23 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-02 14:07 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-03 06:28 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 23:03 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 04:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 05:12 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 05:34 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-02 14:08 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 07:39 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 17:13 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 11:01 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 21:51 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 08:52 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 22:42 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 09:57 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 23:22 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 10:29 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 00:14 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 03:59 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 04:15 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 12:50 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 13:36 -0700
                Of course I get it... (Was: The case AGAINST C) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-05-03 08:44 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:42 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 05:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:56 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 05:58 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 14:36 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-03 13:27 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 22:43 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-03 15:17 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 00:50 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 15:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-04 11:36 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 08:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-04 17:28 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 12:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-05 18:45 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-06 18:43 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:35 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-07 13:23 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 06:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 16:25 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 07:32 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:09 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 18:12 +0100
                Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 14:07 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 20:03 +0200
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 15:21 -0400
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 13:07 -0700
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 16:13 -0400
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:39 +0200
                Re: Global variables Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 17:50 -0400
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:57 +0200
                Re: Global variables Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 19:56 -0400
                Re: Global variables Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-05-07 03:21 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 09:09 +0200
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-07 08:49 -0700
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 20:55 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:51 +0200
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:40 -0700
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 23:54 +0100
                Re: Global variables Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-07 15:12 +1200
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 09:03 +0200
                Re: Global variables Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-05-18 20:23 -0700
                Re: Global variables Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-18 20:44 -0700
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-19 17:22 +0200
                Re: Global variables supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-19 11:56 -0700
                Re: Global variables supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-06 16:28 -0700
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 14:19 -0400
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 20:16 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:09 +0200
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 23:41 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-03 09:13 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 17:29 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-05-03 19:24 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-04 05:46 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-04 10:55 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 04:03 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 12:31 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-04 05:10 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 13:24 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:26 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:35 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 07:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 07:19 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:37 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:19 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 12:07 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 16:31 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 09:50 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 10:04 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 13:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 14:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 15:14 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-04 11:18 -0500
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:05 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 17:55 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 10:54 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 19:18 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 11:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 16:45 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-05-04 11:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 12:15 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 21:56 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 17:01 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 17:54 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 13:38 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 21:49 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 17:19 -0400
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:16 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 23:55 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 11:59 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 14:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 04:46 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 11:45 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 06:10 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-05-02 15:23 +0100
          Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 17:36 +0100
  Re: The case AGAINST C "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 22:03 +0800
  Re: The case AGAINST C Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2018-05-01 13:46 +0000

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