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Groups > comp.lang.c > #130353

Re: The case AGAINST C

From Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: The case AGAINST C
Date 2018-05-08 11:09 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <85p3fd11leu4nso76rh9qqmb6utbffcssm@4ax.com> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <pcrj1j$sdp$1@dont-email.me> <8d643bef-a78d-4414-a7c5-35ea3ea79e11@googlegroups.com> <pcseur$ipe$1@dont-email.me> <8509bd56-f315-4a5b-838a-f4f16c176973@googlegroups.com> <pcskda$ppp$1@dont-email.me>

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On Tue, 8 May 2018 18:48:41 +0200, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

>Agreed.  It is also a PITA.
>
>Watchdogs in general are rarely a good idea.  They make sense if you 
>have flaky hardware, but it is best to get better hardware if possible. 
>Otherwise they mostly just make bugs harder to trace.

Every CNC control manufacturer on the planet disagrees with this. That
being said, there are proper ways to implement watchdogs and CNC
watchdogs only trip the emergency stop, they don't restart the system
software. System restart is accomplished by complete power down and
restart.

The Apollo Guidance Computers in the CM and LM had watchdogs and were
restarted several times due to faults (1201 and 1202 alarms), they
resumed their active programs with the active data and successfully
approached the landing zone. Neil Armstrong didn't take manual control
of the landing until it was evident to him that the target landing
spot selected by the computer had a large boulder and crater.

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The case AGAINST C Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-30 02:10 +0000
  Re: The case AGAINST C cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2018-04-30 03:14 +0000
    Re: The case AGAINST C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-30 05:48 -0700
    Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 14:58 +0100
    Re: The case AGAINST C Davs <johndemeert0@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 04:18 -0700
      Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 05:26 -0700
      Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 11:21 -0400
        Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 09:21 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-07 12:13 -0500
          Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 10:24 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 13:27 -0400
            Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-07 17:33 +0000
              Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 13:50 -0400
              Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 10:56 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 09:26 +0200
          Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 09:19 +0200
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 00:42 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 06:54 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 07:24 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 17:15 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 09:31 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 18:48 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 10:33 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:36 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 15:08 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 00:56 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 16:17 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-08 11:09 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:43 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 15:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 00:58 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-09 08:11 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 08:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 11:45 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 13:03 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 23:40 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-09 15:48 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-10 13:48 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-10 08:28 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-11 10:06 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 02:22 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 05:29 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-11 13:31 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-11 15:47 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-11 09:16 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-12 17:43 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-12 14:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 00:13 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 01:31 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-11 18:01 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-10 08:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-09 09:29 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-10 08:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 04:43 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-08 21:24 -0400
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 09:10 +0200
            Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-08 19:52 +0000
              Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:48 +0200
  Re: The case AGAINST C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-29 22:07 -0700
  Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 12:22 +0100
    Re: The case AGAINST C Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-04-30 12:08 +0000
      Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 13:38 +0100
        Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 06:05 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 07:39 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C Ed Kellett <e@kellett.im> - 2018-04-30 15:53 +0100
          Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 08:14 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 21:26 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 09:00 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 04:58 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 18:07 +0100
            Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 05:33 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 05:58 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 06:27 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 14:37 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-05-01 13:41 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 16:48 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 10:11 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 11:00 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 19:26 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 11:40 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 12:53 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 22:03 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:10 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 14:21 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:26 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 15:23 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-02 14:07 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-03 06:28 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 23:03 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 04:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 05:12 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 05:34 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-02 14:08 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 07:39 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 17:13 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 11:01 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 21:51 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 08:52 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 22:42 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 09:57 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 23:22 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 10:29 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 00:14 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 03:59 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 04:15 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 12:50 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 13:36 -0700
                Of course I get it... (Was: The case AGAINST C) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-05-03 08:44 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:42 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 05:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:56 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 05:58 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 14:36 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-03 13:27 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 22:43 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-03 15:17 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 00:50 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 15:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-04 11:36 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 08:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-04 17:28 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 12:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-05 18:45 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-06 18:43 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:35 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-07 13:23 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 06:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 16:25 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 07:32 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:09 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 18:12 +0100
                Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 14:07 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 20:03 +0200
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 15:21 -0400
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 13:07 -0700
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 16:13 -0400
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:39 +0200
                Re: Global variables Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 17:50 -0400
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:57 +0200
                Re: Global variables Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 19:56 -0400
                Re: Global variables Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-05-07 03:21 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 09:09 +0200
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-07 08:49 -0700
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 20:55 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:51 +0200
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:40 -0700
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 23:54 +0100
                Re: Global variables Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-07 15:12 +1200
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 09:03 +0200
                Re: Global variables Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-05-18 20:23 -0700
                Re: Global variables Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-18 20:44 -0700
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-19 17:22 +0200
                Re: Global variables supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-19 11:56 -0700
                Re: Global variables supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-06 16:28 -0700
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 14:19 -0400
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 20:16 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:09 +0200
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 23:41 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-03 09:13 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 17:29 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-05-03 19:24 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-04 05:46 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-04 10:55 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 04:03 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 12:31 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-04 05:10 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 13:24 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:26 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:35 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 07:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 07:19 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:37 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:19 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 12:07 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 16:31 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 09:50 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 10:04 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 13:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 14:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 15:14 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-04 11:18 -0500
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:05 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 17:55 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 10:54 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 19:18 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 11:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 16:45 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-05-04 11:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 12:15 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 21:56 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 17:01 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 17:54 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 13:38 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 21:49 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 17:19 -0400
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:16 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 23:55 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 11:59 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 14:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 04:46 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 11:45 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 06:10 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-05-02 15:23 +0100
          Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 17:36 +0100
  Re: The case AGAINST C "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 22:03 +0800
  Re: The case AGAINST C Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2018-05-01 13:46 +0000

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