Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system

From	James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c, comp.lang.misc
Subject	Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system
Date	2018-03-06 21:37 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<p7n1m7$ei6$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <slrnp9h0lc.eu5.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid> <p7e47k$sua$1@dont-email.me> <mezmC.5954$4j2.1021@fx35.am4> <p7gbjm$quq$1@dont-email.me> <slrnp9pu5k.eu5.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 05/03/2018 07:58, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> (Crossposting since everyone else in the thread insists on it.)
> 
> On Sun, 2018-03-04, James Harris wrote:
> ...
>> The whole make infrastructure is brilliant, IMO, but it does have some
>> weaknesses:
>>
>> 1. It is more than awkward at handling dependencies which are produced
>> on the fly. That leads to many makefiles having to split the operations
>> so you might see
>>
>>     make depend
>>     make
>>
>> The second command uses the dependency files produced by the first. It
>> would be better to have that stuff handled automatically.
> 
> Others thought so too, so there's a way to do it (at least if you use
> gcc or clang).  See e.g. this Makefile of mine:
> https://github.com/kjgrahn/groblad/blob/master/Makefile
> 
> Or
> 
> * Paul D. Smith: Auto-Dependency Generation
>    http://make.mad-scientist.net/papers/advanced-auto-dependency-generation/

Thanks. Yes, I know. I spent some hours working on this a few years ago. 
It was nightmarish. I think I tried two published solutions and one of 
my own. All had failings of one sort or another. Can't remember the 
details now but IIRC I concluded the make system is not designed to 
process dependencies after it has started executing commands. As for 
gcc, I didn't want to depend on a particular version of make or a 
particular compiler, and this was to work with an assembler as well as a 
compiler.

> 
>> 2. I would prefer the commands run to be printed only when they fail in
>> some way, i.e. output like this would be handy
>>
>>     command <errcode>
>>     stderr output
>>
>> but only when the command returned a non-zero error code or wrote
>> something to stderr.
> 
> I think you can get that, but you have to write it yourself, in the
> same way that e.g. the Linux kernel Makefile just writes
> 
>    CC foo.c
>    LD libfoo.a
> 
> instead of the full commands by default.
> 
> Personally I want to see what's happening, especially during
> incremental builds ("what needs to rebuild after the changes I
> made?").

Noted. A command-line switch could allow a choice.

> 
>> 3. The make command is, if anything, too flexible for building programs,
>> and that leads to some crazy makefiles.
> 
> No, incompetence and indifference leads to crazy makefiles.

Sure, but sensible people don't get to write all makefiles. Software can 
be distributed with makefiles which are dangerously Gordian!

> 
>> Rather than have that flexibility in each makefile it may be better
>> to have some universal rules to which limited but sufficient tweaks
>> can be applied.
> 
> That's not an original idea: I think that's the reason cmake, qmake
> and so on exist.  You may want to investigate them.
> 
> Those also (try to) let you split your projects into independent
> sub-projects.  For cmake that works reasonably well, IME.

Thanks. I'll take a look.

> 
>> 4. Finally, make is a security risk. When you run make on someone else's
>> makefile you often don't know which commands it will run under your userid.
> 
> What about the thing you build -- isn't that a security risk, too?
> Because I assume you want to run it eventually.

On Windows or Unix, yes, but they are not all OSes. A sane OS would 
execute binaries in a cocoon.

> 
> I see no way around this with any build tool.  Although you can build
> in some sandbox, e.g. a Docker container on Linux.
> 
>> That's not to have a go at make. I think it's great. But that list maybe
>> explains some of the reasons why I wanted to write a custom program
>> builder.
> 
> Your goals are a bit unclear to me, so I won't comment on that.
> 
> /Jorgen
> 


-- 
James Harris

Thread

Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-01 14:40 +0000
  Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-01 14:55 +0000
    Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-02 21:05 +0000
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-03 01:18 +0000
        Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-09 01:03 +0000
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-02 22:37 -0800
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-09 01:23 +0000
  Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2018-03-01 11:11 -0500
    Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2018-03-01 13:51 -0500
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-01 11:02 -0800
    Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-03 09:48 +0000
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-03 04:06 -0800
        Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-03 05:24 -0800
          Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-03 06:43 -0800
    Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-06 13:51 -0800
  Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-01 22:46 +0000
    Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-01 15:27 -0800
    Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-03 12:25 +0000
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-03 04:53 -0800
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-03 15:32 +0000
        Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-03 08:02 -0800
        Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-04 07:52 +0000
        Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-04 08:43 +0000
          Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-05 07:58 +0000
            Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-06 21:37 +0000
              Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-07 21:02 +0000
          Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-05 15:29 +0000
            Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-07 04:54 +0000
              Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-07 00:33 -0600
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-07 09:55 +0000
      Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-04 07:39 +0000
        Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-03-07 05:00 -0800
          Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-07 14:09 +0000
            Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-03-07 14:26 +0000
              Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-07 16:35 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-07 09:32 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-07 10:11 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-07 11:12 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-07 12:01 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-07 15:43 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-07 19:18 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-08 09:59 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-08 10:28 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-08 13:36 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-08 21:47 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-08 15:03 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-09 09:59 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-09 10:33 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-09 12:27 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-09 20:48 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-09 13:31 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-10 18:31 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-10 13:22 -0600
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-10 19:15 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-09 13:28 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-09 14:13 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-09 14:45 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-10 17:39 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-03-10 19:00 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 08:26 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-12 17:06 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 10:23 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-12 18:42 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 12:20 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-12 20:27 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 14:12 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 11:12 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-12 09:23 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 10:38 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-03-12 11:41 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 12:10 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-09 12:09 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-03-09 20:46 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-10 18:35 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 08:54 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-13 08:39 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-03-17 11:03 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 07:37 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 14:22 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 21:48 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 17:50 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-11 15:54 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-12 09:38 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-08 10:48 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-08 09:58 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-08 22:03 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-08 13:55 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 22:38 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-08 15:03 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 23:15 +0000
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-03-17 10:44 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-03-18 03:47 -0700
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-09 10:10 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-09 10:10 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2018-03-08 14:21 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-08 15:10 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-09 10:13 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-09 10:10 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-08 10:28 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-03-08 10:28 -0800
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-03-08 22:17 +0100
                Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-03-08 13:26 -0800
  Re: Compiling and linking code from different places in the file system "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2018-03-14 13:39 +0100

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