Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #433092

Re: Train gedanken - again.

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Train gedanken - again.
Date	2017-09-20 20:42 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<opujrp$1pml$2@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	<opr46v$jhn$1@dont-email.me> <ops8jj$1rqc$1@gioia.aioe.org> <2403458.mvXUDI8C0e@PointedEars.de> <opsod0$im2$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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HGW <HW@home.net> wrote:
> On 20/09/17 12:48, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> HGW wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19/09/17 22:56, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>>> The observations:
>>>> - At some time, Paul passes Ralph.
>>>> - At some later time, Ralph sees the flashes
>>>> from the lightening bolts simultaneously.
>>>> - At some time, Paul sees the flash from the front,
>>>> and shortly later, he sees the flash from the aft end.
>>>> - Ralph finds that he is midway between the marks in the ground.
>>> 
>>> According to SR:
>>> Since Paul is at the midpoint of the train and the flashes did not reach
>>> him simultaneously, the flashes were not absolutely simultaneous.
>>> Since Ralph is midway between the flashes and DOES see them
>>> simultaneously, the flashes WERE absolutely simultaneous.
>> 
>> That would be the case if the train, on which Ralph is located, were not
>> moving relative to the places of the flashes.  
> 
> But your colleagues have insisted that the flashes have no 'places'.

Like Seto, you can't read. The flashes have places. They have no duration. 

> 
>> But it is, and so he is: he
>> is moving away from the place of the one flash and towards the place of the
>> other, and so he is moving away from the light of the former and towards the
>> light of the latter.
> 
> You have assumed the flashes are at rest with the ground.
> 
>> (Use a fixed-width Unicode font to read the following.)
>> 
>> t₀:  ☇        R        ☇  Flashes strike
>> ☇        P        ☇  Flashes strike
>> 
>> t₁:    →       R     ←    Ralph has not seen either flash yet
>> →      P      ←    Paul has not seen either flash yet
>> 
>> t₂:      →      R  ←      Ralph has not seen either flash yet
>> →    P    ←      Paul has not seen either flash yet
>> 
>> t₃:        →     R←       Ralph has just seen the front flash
>> →  P  ←        Paul has not seen either flash yet
>> 
>> t₄:          → ←  R       Ralph has already seen the front flash,
>> but not the rear flash yet
>> →P←          Front and rear flash are simultaneous for Paul
>> 
>> t₅:          ← →   R      Ralph has already seen the front flash,
>> but not the rear flash yet
>> ←P→          Paul has seen both flashes already
>> 
>> t₆:        ←     →  R     Ralph has already seen the front flash,
>> but not the rear flash yet
>> ←  P  →        Paul has seen both flashes already
>> 
>> t₇:      ←         → R    Ralph has already seen the front flash,
>> but not the rear flash yet
>> ←    P    →      Paul has seen both flashes already
>> 
>> t₈:    ←             →R   Ralph finally sees the rear flash
>> ←      P      →    Paul has seen both flashes already
>> 
>> (It’s so very simple, isn’t it?)
> 
> Simple to a simpleton....Ken is far smarter than any dingleberry here
> even though he is silly enough to believe in an 
> aether.
> 
>>> .... so your experiment is impossible.
>> 
>> No, your logic is flawed.
> 
> Your logic doesn't exist.
> 
>>> Your observations assume the flashes were at rest with the ground and
>>> moved at c in that frame.
>> 
>> First of all, not the flashes are moving towards the observers,
>> but the light from the flashes.
> 
> Yes I have told everyone here about that.
> 
>> Second, the speed of light is the same in all frames of reference.
>> Experimentally confirmed.
> 
> Your stupidity confirmed...as Ken so wisely pointed out.
> 
> If the speed from both ends of the train is c in the train frame then
> Paul, who is at the centre, MUST receive them 
> simultaneously.
> 
> End of RoS...End of Einstein!
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Thread

Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-19 14:56 +0200
  Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-19 06:00 -0700
  Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 14:48 +0000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 14:53 +0000
      Re: Train gedanken - again. Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2017-09-19 08:05 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-19 09:09 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2017-09-19 09:35 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-19 10:45 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 22:01 +0000
          Re: Train gedanken - again. Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2017-09-20 07:30 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-20 20:00 +0000
  Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-19 07:55 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-19 14:58 +0000
  Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-20 09:18 +1000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-20 04:48 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-20 13:47 +1000
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-20 14:33 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 09:05 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-20 16:07 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 01:24 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 12:22 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 15:28 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 15:40 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-29 09:20 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-29 08:49 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-29 12:08 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-29 05:59 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:22 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:08 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-27 20:30 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-20 20:42 +0000
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 08:39 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-21 02:18 +0000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 08:25 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 01:37 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 12:34 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 13:30 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 06:44 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-10-10 00:24 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-22 03:02 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 06:50 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 10:08 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-23 04:09 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-23 13:32 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 09:02 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-24 06:31 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-23 19:37 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 07:26 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-24 16:44 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 08:03 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-24 17:35 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 08:26 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 17:36 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-24 18:24 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 07:34 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 15:49 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 07:56 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-25 00:00 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:47 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-25 00:47 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 23:53 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 19:53 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-25 02:58 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:54 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 03:15 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-25 10:19 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:56 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 03:11 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-25 14:43 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 01:26 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 02:06 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-27 08:39 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:52 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 03:18 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-25 10:21 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-25 13:19 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 15:48 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 08:31 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-24 17:46 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-24 09:30 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-09-24 08:04 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-24 08:24 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-23 14:11 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 08:53 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-24 02:31 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 16:39 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-24 12:34 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 08:30 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-24 22:32 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 09:41 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 02:51 +0000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 15:51 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-25 12:48 +0000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-20 11:13 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-20 02:31 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 02:34 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-20 03:25 -0700
  Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-19 22:40 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 08:08 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 08:46 +1000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 08:33 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-20 00:04 -0700
      Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 00:34 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 00:42 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 10:54 +0200
            Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 08:49 +1000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-20 15:59 -0700
              Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 01:54 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 12:43 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-22 12:56 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-22 11:04 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:36 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 01:38 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-27 20:00 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 12:06 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:30 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:04 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 20:36 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 07:21 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-26 21:57 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 20:57 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-26 21:00 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 15:24 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-27 17:39 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 02:52 +0200
        Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-20 10:48 +0200
    Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-20 15:13 +0200
  Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-20 20:19 +0200
    Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-20 20:02 +0000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 09:10 +1000
      Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-21 12:46 +0200
  Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-20 13:14 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2017-09-20 13:27 -0700
    Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-21 09:29 +1000
    Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-21 14:03 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-21 05:19 -0700
      Re: Train gedanken - again. Kos Etrakis <uar@ksskkwi.ck> - 2017-09-21 12:42 +0000
      Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-21 07:24 -0700
        Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-21 22:16 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 08:51 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-22 03:02 +0000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-21 20:18 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 20:39 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-21 20:42 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 07:49 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 23:51 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 09:04 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 09:08 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-22 00:27 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Poutnik <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2017-09-22 11:52 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-22 04:05 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:46 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 12:26 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:31 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:01 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-27 20:22 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 12:00 +0200
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-22 14:08 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:41 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-27 12:28 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-28 09:32 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-09-28 03:02 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-22 07:03 -0700
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-22 19:55 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 07:42 +1000
              Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-23 06:55 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-24 11:17 +0200
      Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-22 08:30 +1000
        Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-22 13:52 +0200
          Re: Train gedanken - again. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-22 05:34 -0700
          Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-23 08:05 +1000
            Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-23 15:38 +0200
              Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-24 09:12 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-23 16:17 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-24 11:03 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-24 07:11 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-24 07:38 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. HGW <HW@home.net> - 2017-09-25 08:43 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-09-25 14:38 +0200
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-25 07:15 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-25 07:38 -0700
                Re: Train gedanken - again. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-09-26 04:20 +1000
                Re: Train gedanken - again. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-09-26 01:23 -0700
              Re: Train gedanken - again. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-24 06:48 -0700

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