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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #430830
| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: The flaws of SR |
| Date | 2017-09-02 12:03 -0500 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <ooeo98$aad$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | <cc74ed4e-88cc-43c3-8b33-2d7b48c1e4c2@googlegroups.com> <ooa0a6$1fn4$1@gioia.aioe.org> <4fb72c5a-8e24-4442-988a-71e12bbbb41b@googlegroups.com> |
On 9/2/17 11:39 AM, kenseto wrote: > On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 5:50:03 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote: >> On 8/31/17 4:30 PM, kenseto wrote: >>> The flaws of SR: >>> >>> 1. Constant light speed in all inertial frames. By definition the speed of anything is observer dependent. >> >> There is no such definition of speed in physics that requires that the >> speed of anything is observer dependent. The speed of SOME things is >> observer dependent, but not everything. > > The speed of anything is observer dependent. That's simply not true. > ...if you think that’s not so please give us some examples of anything that is not observer dependent. The speed of light is not observer dependent. In nonspeed examples, invariant mass is not observer dependent. > Physicists forced the speed of light to be observer independent by redefining the meter stick to be: > 1 meter = 1/299,792,458 light-second >> >>> Also by definition a clock second used to measure light speed is not a universal constant in all inertial frames...a clock second in A’s frame is corresponded to 1/gamma second in B’s frame. Therefore, the speed of light cannot be constant in all inertial frames. >>> >>> 2. Reciprocity: >>> SR claims: >>> (1) A sees B’s clock accumulates clock second at a slower rate than his A clock (runs slower). >>> (2) B sees A’s clock accumulates clock second at a slower rate than his B clock (runs slower). >>> >>> The above reciprocity claims are refuted by common logic. >> >> You are confusing common logic with your intuition. Your intuition tells >> you that there is one true relational state between any two things. >> However, this intuition is flat wrong and intuition cannot be trusted. > > No my logic is based on experiments......clocks in relative motion will accumulate clock seconds at different rates. In some cases. Not in the cases where reciprocal time dilation is predicted. >> >>> In real life when comparing two clocks in relative motion the following possible outcome are observed: >>> (a) A’s clock accumulates clock seconds at a faster rate than B’s clock by a factor of gamma. >>> (b) A’s clock accumulates clock seconds at a slower rate than B’s clock by a factor of 1/gamma. >>> >>> No reciprocity of rate of accumulating clock seconds between A and B are possible. >>> >>> 3. Relativity of Simultaneity (RoS): >>> SR claims that the simultaneity between two sources of events is relative. In other words, if A measures two events to be simultaneous B will see that the same two events to be not simultaneous. >>> First of all I want to clarify that simultaneity have absolutely no effect on any physical processes and therefore there is not point in including RoS in any physical theory. RoS was invented by Einstein to explain the paradoxes derived from his constant light speed postulate. >> >> You are claiming that you've read Einstein's mind before you were born >> to claim that he was aware of paradoxes that would be raised in 1908 and >> so he invented RoS in 1905. I don't know how you can claim to read the >> mind of a dead man in a year before you were born. > > No, I am claiming that Einstein was ignorance of the fact that simultaneity can only be measured by an observer who is at rest at the mid-point between the two sources of the events to be measured. Well, he's was certainly ignorant of your false claim to that effect. It is not true that simultaneity can only be measured by an observer who is at rest and at the midpoint between the two sources of the events to be measured. Einstein was ignorant of a lot of your false assertions. > Any other observer who is moving wrt the sources of these two events are not qualified to measure the simultaneity of the two events. The qualified observer can us the LT to inform any interested outside observer the time of simultaneity. There is no such qualification. >> >>> >>> In any case, simultaneity between any two events can only be measured by an observer who is at rest at the mid-point of the sources of the two events. After the measurement, the observer can use the LT to transform the time interval of simultaneity to any other observer moving wrt him. Again I want to emphasize that simultaneity plays no role in any physical processes. Therefore it should not be included in any physical theory of physics. >>> >>> 4. length contraction: >>> This is invented to maintain the constant speed of light is all frames. >> >> Nope, it’s observed. > > Nope it not observed Yes, it is. Your ignorance of the experimental results that pertain to this does not give you license to deny their existence. > >> >>> In real life there is no material length contraction. >> >> That's right, it's not material length contraction. It is a different >> kind of real length contraction. Einstein never said or implied that it >> was a material length contraction. That was a word you inserted yourself. > > Geometric projection is not real contraction. I said NEITHER material nor geometric contraction. It is you that keeps inserting the word "material" and if material is removed, you then insert "geometric". If "geometric" is removed, then you reinsert "material". Do not insert words into what I say. > I see you from a distance to be shorter does not mean that you are really shorter. > >> >>> The length contraction equation is describing the the light path-length of a moving meter stick is contracted by a factor of 1/gamma. This description is based don the assumption that the light-path length of the observer’s meter stick is its material length >>> >> >> >> -- >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables -- Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-08-31 14:30 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 16:50 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-08-31 18:14 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 19:37 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-01 17:18 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 17:25 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-01 17:56 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 11:59 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 15:29 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 20:45 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 20:05 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 08:38 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-05 06:55 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-05 16:14 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-05 18:39 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 02:01 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-06 17:44 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-06 15:59 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 20:19 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-06 21:37 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 23:34 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 04:01 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-07 04:09 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 04:50 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-07 05:39 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 07:27 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Béèku Mická <bmik@owjfns.gh> - 2017-09-07 21:37 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-07 18:30 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-07 18:27 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 20:54 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-06 08:38 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-02 01:02 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-02 09:49 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 12:09 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 15:11 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 20:45 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 19:47 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR "R.B." <matt.rush200@outlook.com> - 2017-09-22 03:53 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 01:29 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 19:37 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 14:48 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-02 09:39 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 12:03 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-03 08:08 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 08:48 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-05 07:00 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-05 08:19 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-05 16:02 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 16:10 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-06 06:58 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-06 09:03 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-06 07:16 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-07 07:04 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-07 15:50 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-08 06:09 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-08 08:35 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-08 07:59 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-08 11:36 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 07:50 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 08:06 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 09:59 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 11:17 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-09 11:37 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Utorských Vitelé <hue@svwor.hh> - 2017-09-09 18:59 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-09 18:37 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-09 17:14 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-10 01:45 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-10 05:11 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-10 09:08 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-10 07:38 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-10 09:43 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 08:39 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 09:15 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-11 18:24 +0200
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 06:45 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-12 08:59 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 08:13 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 11:04 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:03 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:42 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:48 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:50 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-09-12 18:04 -0400
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 18:05 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 11:15 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:11 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:43 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-09-12 18:11 -0400
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 18:06 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-12 16:36 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 09:02 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Utorských Vitelé <hue@svwor.hh> - 2017-09-12 14:22 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:26 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 11:52 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-11 09:58 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-09 08:09 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 10:08 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-09 10:18 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 21:15 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 21:42 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-09 21:49 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-10 07:57 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 08:38 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 08:37 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 08:59 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 09:06 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-11 18:21 +0200
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 11:48 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 15:35 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 08:54 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 08:37 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 11:02 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 13:54 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:45 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:21 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:40 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-13 09:09 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-13 18:18 +0200
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-14 05:56 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-14 15:15 +0200
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-21 12:09 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-21 20:14 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-21 23:10 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-13 12:33 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-14 06:05 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-14 09:06 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-14 16:00 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-08-31 21:28 -0500
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-01 05:57 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 07:31 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-01 12:21 +0200
Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 12:04 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-01 12:30 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 17:32 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 17:36 +0000
Re: The flaws of Seto's misunderstanding of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-01 13:03 +0000
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-02 06:38 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-02 09:04 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-03 04:05 +0000
Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-02 21:18 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-09-06 16:13 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 20:26 -0500
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 12:10 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 13:31 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 13:34 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 14:40 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 05:51 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 09:55 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:06 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:45 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:48 -0700
The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:53 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-09 14:18 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-09 14:42 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-09 14:45 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 15:42 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 12:46 -0700
Re: The flaws of SR Carl Susumu <numbernumber1212@gmail.com> - 2017-09-21 14:02 -0700
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