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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #430665

Re: The flaws of Seto's misunderstanding of SR

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: The flaws of Seto's misunderstanding of SR
Date 2017-09-01 13:03 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <ooblqg$qpt$3@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References <cc74ed4e-88cc-43c3-8b33-2d7b48c1e4c2@googlegroups.com>

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Let's see how Ken Seto's lack of understanding of SR misleads him:

kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>The flaws of SR:

>1. Constant light speed in all inertial frames. By definition the speed of
>anything is observer dependent.

Here Ken invents his own definition of speed, and he tries to use his own
definition as if it was the correct one.  Ken frequently makes up his own
definitions of things, and this is frequently why he is wrong.

>2. Reciprocity:
>SR claims:
>(1) A sees B=E2=80=99s clock accumulates clock second at a slower rate than
> his A clock (runs slower).
>(2) B sees A=E2=80=99s clock accumulates clock second at a slower rate than
> his B clock (runs slower).

>The above reciprocity claims are refuted by common logic.

Ken is wrong here because A and B aren't measuring the same thing. A
compares the reading of clock A1 to the clocks B1 and B2.  Meanwhile,
B compares the reading of clock B1 to the clocks A1 and A2.  Obviously
not the same things.  There is no reason why if A and B aren't measuring
the same thing that they must come up with the same answer!

>3. Relativity of Simultaneity (RoS):
>SR claims that the simultaneity between two sources of events is relative.

You don't need SR or even motion to demonstrate RoS! Consider the following
using only a finite speed of light, no SR, no time dilation or length
contraction.

Two stars S1 and S2 are 10 light years apart. Observer O1 is at the
midpoint of the line connecting S1 and S2.  Observer O2 is also on this
line, but 1 light year from S1 and 9 light years from S2.  In a certain
reference frame S1, S2, O1 and O2 are all stationary (no motion involved
anywhere). O1 observes both stars going nova at the same time.  What does
S2 observe?

Since O1 is 5 light years from the stars, the light was emitted 5 years
earlier according to O1.  Since O2 is only 1 light year away from S1 but 9
light years from S2, when O2 observes S1 going nova, but the light from S2
has only traveled 1 ly at that time.  It takes 8 additional years for the
light from S2 to reach O2.  O2 will conclude that S1 went nova 8 years 
before S2 did.

Same if you consider a galaxy 65 million light years away from us (but
stationary).  We see its light as it was 65 million years ago. But
consider creatures there observing us.  They aren't as we see their
galaxy, since we see how things were there 65 million years earlier.  And
they don't see us, they see dinosaurs roaming the earth and an asteroid
striking the earth killing them.

>4. length contraction:
>This is invented to maintain the constant speed of light is all frames.

Here Ken Seto reads Einstein's mind in 1915, before Seto was even born.
Interesting superpowers Seto must have!  Also, Seto doesn't understand
length contraction so he assumes it can't exist.

>real life there is no material length contraction.

Also this. Ken inserts "material" into length contraction, sees a
conflict with his redefinition and knocks it down. Typical straw man
argument. Ken doesn't undestand that length contraction is real, but not
material.

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Thread

The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-08-31 14:30 -0700
  Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 16:50 -0500
    Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-08-31 18:14 -0500
      Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 19:37 +0000
        Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-01 17:18 -0500
          Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 17:25 -0500
            Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-01 17:56 -0500
              Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 11:59 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 15:29 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 20:45 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 20:05 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 08:38 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-05 06:55 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-05 16:14 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-05 18:39 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 02:01 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-06 17:44 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-06 15:59 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 20:19 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-09-06 21:37 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 23:34 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 04:01 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-07 04:09 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 04:50 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-07 05:39 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 07:27 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Béèku Mická <bmik@owjfns.gh> - 2017-09-07 21:37 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-07 18:30 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-07 18:27 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-07 20:54 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-06 08:38 -0500
            Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-02 01:02 -0700
            Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-02 09:49 -0700
              Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 12:09 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 15:11 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 20:45 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-02 19:47 -0500
      Re: The flaws of SR "R.B." <matt.rush200@outlook.com> - 2017-09-22 03:53 -0700
    Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 01:29 -0700
      Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 19:37 +0000
        Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-01 14:48 -0700
    Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-02 09:39 -0700
      Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 12:03 -0500
        Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-03 08:08 -0700
          Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 08:48 -0500
            Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-05 07:00 -0700
            Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-05 08:19 -0700
              Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-05 16:02 +0000
              Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 16:10 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-06 06:58 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-06 09:03 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-09-06 07:16 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-07 07:04 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-07 15:50 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-08 06:09 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-08 08:35 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-08 07:59 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-08 11:36 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 07:50 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 08:06 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 09:59 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 11:17 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-09 11:37 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Utorských Vitelé <hue@svwor.hh> - 2017-09-09 18:59 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-09 18:37 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-09 17:14 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-10 01:45 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-10 05:11 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-10 09:08 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-09-10 07:38 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-10 09:43 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 08:39 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 09:15 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-11 18:24 +0200
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 06:45 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-12 08:59 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 08:13 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 11:04 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:03 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:42 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:48 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:50 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-09-12 18:04 -0400
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 18:05 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 11:15 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:11 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:43 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-09-12 18:11 -0400
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 18:06 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-12 16:36 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 09:02 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Utorských Vitelé <hue@svwor.hh> - 2017-09-12 14:22 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:26 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 11:52 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-11 09:58 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-09 08:09 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 10:08 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-09 10:18 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-09 21:15 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 21:42 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-09-09 21:49 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-10 07:57 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 08:38 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 08:37 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 08:59 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 09:06 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-11 18:21 +0200
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-11 11:48 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-11 15:35 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 08:54 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 08:37 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 11:02 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 13:54 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:45 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-12 14:21 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-12 16:40 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-13 09:09 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-13 18:18 +0200
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-14 05:56 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-14 15:15 +0200
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-21 12:09 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-21 20:14 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-21 23:10 +0000
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-13 12:33 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-14 06:05 -0700
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-14 09:06 -0500
                Re: The flaws of SR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-09-14 16:00 +0000
  Re: The flaws of SR Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-08-31 21:28 -0500
    Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-01 05:57 -0700
  Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 07:31 +0000
    Re: The flaws of SR Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-09-01 12:21 +0200
      Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 12:04 +0000
      Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-01 12:30 +0000
        Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 17:32 +0000
          Re: The flaws of SR Bídníkùm Laterá <bila@wehia.ui> - 2017-09-01 17:36 +0000
  Re: The flaws of Seto's misunderstanding of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-01 13:03 +0000
  The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-02 06:38 -0700
    Re: The flaws of SR kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-09-02 09:04 -0700
      Re: The flaws of SR moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-09-03 04:05 +0000
        Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-02 21:18 -0700
      Re: The flaws of SR JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-09-06 16:13 -0700
        Re: The flaws of SR Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-09-06 20:26 -0500
  The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 12:10 -0700
    The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 13:31 -0700
      The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 13:34 -0700
      The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 14:40 -0700
        The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 05:51 -0700
        The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 09:55 -0700
          The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:06 -0700
            The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:45 -0700
            The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:48 -0700
              The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-10 10:53 -0700
  Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-09 14:18 -0700
  Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-09 14:42 -0700
  Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-09 14:45 -0700
    Re: The flaws of SR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-09-09 15:42 -0700
  Re: The flaws of SR numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-09-21 12:46 -0700
  Re: The flaws of SR Carl Susumu <numbernumber1212@gmail.com> - 2017-09-21 14:02 -0700

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