Groups > sci.electronics.design > #462147

Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics
Date	2017-05-29 01:08 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ogga5o$6mo$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<MPG.3390d8e696dfb651989698@reader80.eternal-september.org> <gppdic1713mfpmmvv5466qgg74l8fr1k8r@4ax.com> <MPG.33910f1241bd21e5989699@reader80.eternal-september.org>

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RBlack wrote on 5/25/2017 11:56 AM:
> On Thu, 25 May 2017 17:26:01 +0300,  (upsidedown@downunder.com) said:
>> On Thu, 25 May 2017 13:05:28 +0100, RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We are working on a medical product, which will draw about 3 kW from the
>>> mains.  This is new territory for us, all our previous products were a
>>> few hundred watts max so an off-the-shelf auto-ranging PSU with a
>>> suitable IEC lead was OK for any country in the world.
>>
>> Is this peak or average ?
>> Is it 3 kW or 3 kVA ? What power factor ?
>>
>>> 3 kW is OK for a standard outlet in 220V countries, but for North
>>> America, Japan etc we are over the limit for a standard 110V outlet.
>>
>> It is not OK for 220-240 V outlets with 10 A fuses. You would have to
>> install a dedicated 16 A outlet.
>>
>> Any additional loads on the same fuse might eventually blow the fuse,
>> a situation which is not appreciated in a hospital environment.
>>
>>
> The 3kW figure is peak, for maybe 15 minutes at a time.  Average would
> be closer to a few hundred watts.  Power factor should be close to
> unity, the loads are all either resistive or on the other side of a SMPS
> with active PFC.
>
> My preference, for all the reasons that have come up so far, would be a
> dedicated outlet, but the marketing guys are resisting this as they
> think it creates a potential obstacle to the buyer.  I can't understand
> this myself, we just acquired an environmental chamber which needed its
> own 32A 3 phase outlet.  The cost of installing that was a tiny fraction
> of the unit itself.

There's marketing and there's sales.  I don't know about your product, but 
many expensive devices are sold by "lending" them to the customer with the 
understanding if they like it you will get a PO.  A dedicated power line 
might make this harder to do regardless of who pays for the installation. 
The electrical work would not be expensive in any real sense compared to the 
cost of most medical equipment.  But just the procedural issues involved 
make such a demo much harder to make happen.

The good news in the US is that a 30 amp 208/230/240/2x0 volt (whatever the 
nominal voltage is) is a pretty common standard outlet if you are working at 
that voltage.  Many clothes dryers use them.  The connector is a NEMA 14-30. 
  For higher current devices (like charging cars) the NEMA 14-50 connector 
will supply 50 amps which is way overkill for your device.

The building wiring up to the outlet will need to support the full rated 
current of the connector.  The current capability of your cable can be sized 
to match a fuse in your equipment.  So you don't need to use 10 gauge wires 
in your device cable.  They are big, heavy things.  Does your machine get 
pulled into position?  If so, the bigger the cabling the more of a PITA it is.

-- 

Rick C

Thread

Medical devices and US 220V electrics RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com> - 2017-05-25 13:05 +0100
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-25 05:55 -0700
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 17:26 +0300
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-25 10:27 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-25 08:39 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-25 12:40 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-25 15:03 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 20:09 +0300
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com> - 2017-05-25 16:56 +0100
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-25 16:42 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 20:38 +0300
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 10:48 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-28 15:48 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-29 01:08 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-05-25 17:51 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-25 21:25 +0300
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-05-26 11:55 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 17:38 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-05-26 20:32 -0400
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:20 -0400
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2017-05-27 00:33 -0400
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-27 09:37 -0400
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-05-25 12:07 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-25 12:49 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-28 15:56 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-28 16:59 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-30 12:37 +0300
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-30 17:41 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics gregz <zekor@comcast.net> - 2017-05-30 06:58 +0000
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 12:15 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-25 15:07 -0500
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-25 13:14 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-25 16:34 -0500
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-25 18:47 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 01:46 +0200
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 19:53 -0400
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 02:05 +0200
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:21 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 04:25 +0200
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:33 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 21:48 +0200
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-25 11:20 -0700
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-25 14:57 -0500
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics RBlack <news@rblack01.plus.com> - 2017-05-26 12:17 +0100
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-26 04:53 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 06:00 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 12:05 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 17:51 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-26 17:54 -0700
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-26 22:24 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-27 00:52 +0300
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-26 15:39 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-28 16:34 -0400
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-28 17:26 -0400
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-05-29 12:12 -0400
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-29 14:26 -0400
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2017-05-29 00:08 -0500
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-05-29 20:24 +0000
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-29 16:37 -0400
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-05-30 16:33 +0000
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-30 09:46 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-30 17:45 -0400
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-05-31 03:31 +0000
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-31 17:58 -0400
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 07:54 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 12:49 +0300
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-06-01 10:28 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:45 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-06-01 18:47 -0400
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-06-01 15:57 -0700
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 07:21 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 18:59 -0400
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-06-03 14:00 +0000
                Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-03 11:19 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-30 01:16 +0300
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-29 22:31 -0700
        Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-29 23:06 -0700
          Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-29 23:25 -0700
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-05-29 23:39 -0700
              Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-05-30 00:19 -0700
            Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 10:40 -0400
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-30 10:37 -0400
  Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-30 16:58 -0700
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-30 22:15 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 07:38 -0700
    Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-05-31 14:05 +0000
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-31 07:40 -0700
      Re: Medical devices and US 220V electrics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-31 09:37 -0700

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