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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #419258

Re: Reality versus Math

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Reality versus Math
Date 2017-05-12 16:27 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <of59ct$1qq0$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (13 earlier) <5471b7ca-7d3b-4329-ab18-65d5e9fe8de4@googlegroups.com> <dcd38119-c95c-4dbe-be9d-e7bce13dac8b@googlegroups.com> <-PCdnVOu0OazKYnEnZ2dnUU7-eXNnZ2d@giganews.com> <of2dor$195k$1@gioia.aioe.org> <JMmdnV_HY4L8govEnZ2dnUU7-RHNnZ2d@giganews.com>

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On 5/12/17 3:47 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:
> "Odd Bodkin"  wrote in message news:of2dor$195k$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> 
> On 5/11/17 1:57 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, it is absolutely stunning that rational PH.d qualified 
>>> individuals do not understand that a mathematical technique such has 
>>> summing up all possible paths to get to QM, does not infer in any way 
>>> shape or form that an object can physicaly do such a thing. They say 
>>> this despite a fundamental axiom of QM states that the only possible 
>>> result of a measurement, i.e. a physical fact, is a single eigenvalue.
> 
>> I've seen you say this before. In quantum mechanics, there are certain 
>> properties that are NOT eigenvalues in an experimental setup, and 
>> cannot become eigenvalues unless you CHANGE the setup, which in turn 
>> affects the outcome. Position or trajectory is one of those properties 
>> that does NOT HAVE an eigenvalue in a double-slit experiment, and 
>> therefore it is incorrect to say that QM insists on a single path. It 
>> does no such thing.
> 
> I don't know what you mean. The postulates of QM applies, always. Period.
> 
> ///////////////////////////////////
> Ballantine - QM A modern Development p.43
> 
> Postulate 1: To each dynamical variable there corresponds a linear 
> operator, and the possible values of the dynamical variables are the 
> eigenvalues of the operator.
> 
> Note: There are operators that possess discrete spectre and continuous 
> spectre, or a combination of both.
> 
> //////////////////////////
> 
> Are you confusing "no eigenvalue" with "having a continuous set of 
> eigenvalues" ?

No, I'm not. Take for example the bound state of hydrogen. There are 
eigenvalues for kinetic energy, spin orientation, orbital angular 
momentum. But there is no eigenvalue for position for the electron in 
the bound state. There just isn't. Read the textbook instead of stopping 
at this point and jumping to conclusions.

> 
> Anyway, don't matter
> 
> If "the take all paths" model is a true physical reality, it must apply 
> all the time.
> 
> If the theory every claims, even for a single one off condition,  that a 
> particle really takes all paths for that condition, it contradicts the 
> axioms of QM, and is therefore false.
> 
> Of course, I am an engineer, however, I know someone that isn't.
> 
> http://motls.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/simple-proof-qm-implies-many-worlds.html?m=1 
> 
> 
>> In particular one thing that stands out is that the interference 
>> pattern can apparently only be understood if the particle behaves AS 
>> IF it passes though possible paths.
> 
> You mean, understood classically. The universe is not not classical.  It 
> cannot be understood.

No, I do not mean classically. Feynman's little book The Character of 
Physical Law is pretty good on this.

> 
> Look, people have indeed missed the obvious boat. QM tells us that the 
> universe is inherently random. It has random components because it is a 
> universe that was generated from an empty universe. An empty universe 
> has no laws of physics. No laws of physics means random.

No, no, no. Don't get carried away. Yes, there are some elements of 
randomness in quantum mechanics, but this does not mean COMPLETE 
randomness in all aspects.

> 
> QM is the observation that we live in a universe that has just enough 
> non randomness for us to exist. Excluding god, its the only rational 
> solution, imo.
> 
>> If you do not allow the summation over all possible paths, then you 
>> get the wrong answer.
> 
> Ho hummm... This is quite irrelevant., and stunning that anyone can make 
> such an argument. You just don't understand the difference between 
> mathematical variables and the reality they model

Do you have a different model that does NOT assume the particle follows 
all possible paths and yet gets the answer right?

> 
> I can invent all sorts of mathematic variables. As Ed has wrote in his 
> papers, one can easily model people say, by calculating that on average 
> a couple has 2.4 children, and do all sorts of sums using that 2.4 
> children. It of course, does not mean that 2.4 children exist.

That's a spurious example. The mean does not have to be instantiated in 
a particular family, for the mean to represent the ensemble.

> 
> 
>> So then the question becomes, if it behaves AS IF it traveled all 
>> possible paths, then what is the obstruction to saying that it did?
> 
> I am absolutely stunned that anyone can be so naive and un understanding 
> in not understanding that mathematical symbols and methods are simply 
> invented for convenience. There is no reason that any should have any 
> physical relevance whatsoever.
> 
> Have you ever taken a course in solving differential equation? have you 
> tried all the methods of substitution to try and make an equation 
> integral. Do any of these substitution have physical relevance to the 
> physic there were modelling?

Yes! This is where there is a beautiful tie between mathematics and 
physics. The statement is this:
- You can express the laws that govern a system mathematically.
- The equations of that mathematical expression in principle can be 
solved, using mathematical methods.
- The solutions of those equations express themselves as behaviors of 
the system.

> 
> Feynman simply showed that one could do some integrals of variables to 
> get the same equation as SE. That's it. Period.
> 
> Because 2.4 children make an awful lot of blood on my carpet. I know, I 
> tried.
> 
> Because, in principle, I can make other assumptions, and get the same 
> results.
> 
> Because the Schrodinger picture gets the same results, and cannot have 
> that interpretation, and gets the same results
> 
> Because the Heisenberg picture gets the same results, and cannot have 
> that interpretation, and gets the same results
> 
> Because the Bohmian picture gets the same results, and cannot have that 
> interpretation, and gets the same results
> 
> Because Feynman denied any physical reality to his model.
> 
> 
> Because its nonsense.
> 
> -- Kevin Aylward
> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html
> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 07:41 -0700
  Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-06 16:43 +0200
    Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-06 07:51 -0700
      Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 08:08 -0700
        Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-06 08:37 -0700
          Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-13 13:44 -0700
  Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-06 17:25 +0200
  Re: Reality versus Math Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-06 08:35 -0700
    Re: Reality versus Math Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> - 2017-05-06 15:56 +0000
    Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 08:57 -0700
      Re: Reality versus Math Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> - 2017-05-06 16:27 +0000
      Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 09:35 -0700
        Re: Reality versus Math Kého Resované <knau@wjf2op.we> - 2017-05-06 16:50 +0000
          Re: Reality versus Math Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-05-07 01:56 +0200
  Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-06 09:38 -0700
    Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 09:58 -0700
      Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-06 10:06 -0700
        Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 10:29 -0700
          Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-06 11:00 -0700
            Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 12:51 -0700
              Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-06 13:44 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 14:30 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-06 14:52 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-06 15:53 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 09:33 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 18:47 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-07 19:07 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 10:27 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-07 19:57 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 18:03 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:34 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 10:40 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-07 10:45 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 17:46 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-07 10:55 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:55 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 12:04 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-07 12:11 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 13:01 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-07 13:06 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 13:10 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 13:38 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 13:48 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math polyfrag@gmail.com - 2017-05-07 14:37 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-07 23:51 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-08 09:04 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-05-08 09:37 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-08 10:28 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-07 13:33 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 21:01 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 22:39 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 13:53 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 23:29 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 20:54 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 07:51 +0200
          Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-06 12:06 -0700
            Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-06 13:11 -0700
              Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-06 14:26 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 09:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:09 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 10:36 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:51 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 17:57 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-07 21:27 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 22:45 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 20:58 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 17:49 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 19:58 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 18:01 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-07 20:57 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-07 10:18 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-07 10:24 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-07 14:16 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-07 14:30 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-07 20:10 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-08 08:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-05-08 09:39 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-08 10:23 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math polyfrag@gmail.com - 2017-05-08 10:15 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-08 12:35 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-08 11:53 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-08 12:37 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-08 13:06 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-08 13:21 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 15:33 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-08 14:16 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 07:48 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-09 16:59 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 08:17 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-09 17:38 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 09:18 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-09 18:20 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 09:24 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-09 18:26 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 09:37 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-09 18:41 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 09:58 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-09 19:01 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 12:59 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 11:15 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-16 12:55 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-16 13:03 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-05-16 13:12 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 16:10 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-19 06:22 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 08:39 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-19 07:01 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-19 16:30 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-19 10:03 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-19 23:18 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 12:05 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-19 13:09 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Houchiko Inatsuki <uatci@swckskuwe.io> - 2017-05-19 20:19 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math anne <0140519@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 13:43 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-20 05:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 16:17 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-19 07:04 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-05-19 10:04 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-19 10:04 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 18:54 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 10:57 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-16 19:31 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-05-17 12:53 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-18 05:05 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 05:31 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-18 06:20 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-18 06:23 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-18 06:40 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-18 06:30 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 06:51 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-17 12:51 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-05-17 15:31 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-17 23:11 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-18 20:21 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 12:44 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-05-18 19:14 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-18 17:26 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-18 23:29 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-17 14:27 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-17 14:39 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-17 14:53 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-17 14:29 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 09:03 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-17 13:01 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 21:43 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 16:11 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-16 22:31 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-17 20:53 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 15:37 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-18 20:20 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 09:35 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 09:45 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 10:01 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 13:08 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-09 13:52 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 13:52 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 15:03 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-09 15:13 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-09 16:19 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 08:17 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-05-10 09:11 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 09:34 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-05-10 12:59 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 12:04 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-10 18:51 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-10 23:31 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-05-10 11:55 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-10 14:10 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-11 15:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-10 17:10 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 08:35 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-10 17:31 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 08:20 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-11 16:30 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-11 16:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-12 06:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 07:47 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-12 09:23 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-05-12 09:31 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 10:18 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 15:12 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 10:24 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-12 11:45 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-12 14:03 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 17:12 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 17:14 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-12 15:40 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-13 07:18 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:17 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:34 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-13 08:43 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-13 09:13 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 12:14 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 15:27 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 13:47 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-14 04:03 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-13 12:07 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-13 22:37 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-13 14:45 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-13 20:21 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-13 21:02 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-13 22:27 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-14 11:34 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-14 05:22 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-14 05:51 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-14 19:57 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-14 12:13 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-14 13:12 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 21:34 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-15 13:47 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-15 15:45 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-15 16:53 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-15 23:16 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 04:40 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-16 06:20 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-16 06:58 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Houchiko Inatsuki <uatci@swckskuwe.io> - 2017-05-14 10:49 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Houchiko Inatsuki <uatci@swckskuwe.io> - 2017-05-13 14:37 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-13 17:21 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Houchiko Inatsuki <uatci@swckskuwe.io> - 2017-05-13 18:33 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 16:22 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 21:11 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-09 16:13 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 08:41 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 08:57 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 09:23 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 09:33 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 10:43 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 17:07 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 17:09 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 08:12 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 08:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-10 17:41 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-10 17:42 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 08:45 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:54 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 10:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 11:56 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 12:26 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 12:32 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 13:38 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-10 22:45 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Jean-Pierre Framboise <nctede@pmdcehr.cc> - 2017-05-10 21:00 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 14:29 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 20:10 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 08:29 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-11 17:39 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 08:43 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 17:52 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 09:19 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 18:25 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 09:30 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-11 18:30 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 09:36 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-11 19:21 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math shuba <thailao2558@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 22:03 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-12 11:45 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-12 03:06 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 18:28 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-12 06:52 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 09:21 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-12 09:33 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-12 10:04 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-12 19:39 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-12 10:49 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 15:13 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 20:50 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 18:47 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-05-11 19:19 +0200
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 18:28 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 18:25 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 16:27 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 15:31 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 16:50 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-11 19:57 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 14:24 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-12 21:47 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 16:27 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-12 23:40 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:33 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-13 22:26 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 19:16 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-14 10:57 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 16:46 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 21:55 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 16:46 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 21:59 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 16:47 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 21:43 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 15:50 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-19 20:22 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-19 12:31 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-19 12:33 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-19 12:39 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-20 10:27 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-20 05:09 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:33 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-13 22:05 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 19:03 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-14 11:24 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 16:49 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 16:50 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Jean-Pierre Framboise <nctede@pmdcehr.cc> - 2017-05-11 19:33 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 13:08 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Houchiko Inatsuki <uatci@swckskuwe.io> - 2017-05-11 21:16 +0000
                Re: Reality versus Math "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-12 20:56 +0100
                Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 13:05 -0700
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 16:07 -0500
                Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 15:07 -0500
  Re: Reality versus Math Larry Harson <johnmcandrew66@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 13:14 -0700
    Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 15:20 -0500
    Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-08 13:31 -0700
      Re: Reality versus Math Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 15:35 -0500
  Re: Reality versus Math Larry Harson <johnmcandrew66@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 15:27 -0700
    Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 08:08 -0700
  Reality versus Math "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-09 08:27 -0700
    Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-09 09:23 -0700
  Re: Reality versus Math John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-09 17:23 -0700
    Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-10 08:04 -0700
      Re: Reality versus Math John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-10 15:35 -0700
        Re: Reality versus Math Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-05-11 08:03 -0700

csiph-web