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Re: Common sense and Great Guru

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On 5/5/17 10:09 AM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
> W dniu piątek, 5 maja 2017 15:59:26 UTC+2 użytkownik Odd Bodkin napisał:
>> On 5/5/17 1:00 AM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
>>> W dniu piątek, 5 maja 2017 00:16:20 UTC+2 użytkownik Odd Bodkin napisał:
>>>
>>>>>> Because good engineers have more than one way to accomplish a task.
>>>>>> Some engineers do not build in a correction into a design and then
>>>>>> handle the correction outside the design.
>>>>>
>>>>> Really? Who, precisely,  are they?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I worked with a couple not too long ago. One of them was named
>>>> Charles Overby, and the other was named Glenn Hinderliter. They had a
>>>> discussion in fact about whether to build in a correction for a known
>>>> factor into the design or to leave the factor out and build an
>>>> adjustment wheel which would accomplish the same thing in an ad hoc
>>>> fashion.
>>>
>>> Well, returning to GPS, there is no discussion
>>> and clocks are synchronized.
>>> Even the hardest fanatics of The Shit don't protest,
>>> somehow. That means something.
>>
>> I don't know what you think it means. There was a correction built into
>> the apparatus so that the desynchronized clocks would then be kept
>> synchronous. There is NO REASON in this particular apparatus to allow
>> the clocks to remain desynchronized just to show the principle in force.
> 
> Sure, there is no reason to use useless clocks
> invented by your idiot guru and announced as "standard"
> by a bunch of his moronic followers. 

Yes there are. There are other applications where the standard becomes 
important and universal synchronization offers no better usefulness.

> It's just - as
> they are not used, all your tales of observers
> measuring relativistic wonders with their clocks
> are pure fabrication:(.
> And that's exactly what they are.

No, they're not fabrications. Nor is the Coriolis effect, which is 
corrected for when launching long-range projectiles. The correction is 
done precisely so that the hit on target will not be affected by the 
Coriolis effect. But by compensating for it so that the effect will NOT 
be noticed, the effect is validated by design. The Coriolis effect is 
not fabricated, and either is time dilation.

> 
>> In fact, it is completely adequate to document the CORRECTION made in
>> the design for the principle, and this demonstrates that the principle
>> is real. In the same way, correcting for the Coriolis effect for
>> long-range projectiles so that the projectiles will NOT miss their
>> targets, is a fine demonstration that the Coriolis effect is real.
> 
> The difference is: nobody is mad enough to insist
> proper rockets are rockets without these correction.
> Am I wrong?

There's nothing to be mad about. Either rockets perform or they don't. 
If you build in a correction that allows them to function in the manner 
you want, then the reason for the correction is validated. There is no 
"proper"ness associated with that. It's a purely practical matter.

> 
> 
> 
>>> And you're wrong.
>>> OK. So, why should I believe your symmetry is useful?
>>> As for now, I see you insisting it is and GPS working
>>> fine ignoring it. What did I miss?
>>
>> It depends on the application. I gave you another application to think
>> about where the symmetry would be more useful.
> 
> ?????
> Somehow I didn't notice you gave me anything.

Somehow indeed. I've mentioned a pendulum with a carbon fiber rod 
several times now and you've steadfastly declined to address it. I 
wonder why.

> 
>>> g.
>>>>> The only way to determine whether it's useful or
>>>>> not is - using common sense.
>>>>
>>>> Well, you seem to have repeated the statement, but you haven't yet
>>>> explained any rationale WHY you think the only way to determine
>>>> usefulness is common sense.
>>>
>>> Elimination. Mathematics can't do it. Measurements
>>> can't do it.
>>> So? Any alternative?
>>
>> Sure. Ease of use. Subscription rate. Prevalence of the technology. All
>> of these are more indicators of usefulness than your pet "common sense".
> 
> Do you have any mathematical proof they are?
> Did you measure they are?
> Or maybe your common sense told you they are?

No, not common sense. I have no idea why you place such value on common 
sense. Since you can't explain why you do, then you don't have any idea 
why either.

> 
>> I'll give you a simple test of common sense's value. Let's see how well
>> common sense does in a simple application. If common sense provides the
>> wrong answer, will you agree that perhaps common sense isn't as valuable
>> as you thought it was?
>>
>> Suppose you have a ramp, and at the top you place two objects, of
>> identical mass and comparable dimensions. One of them is a box, Teflon
>> coated, like the ramp. The other is a cylinder, covered with fine-grit
>> sandpaper. The two objects are released at the top of the ramp. The
>> cylinder rolls down the ramp, and the box slides down the ramp with very
>> low friction. Which one makes it down to the bottom first and why? What
>> does common sense tell you?
> 
> That the case is simple enough for physics to
> resolve it correctly. Box.

Why? What does common sense tell you?


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-03 23:33 -0700
  Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 10:04 -0500
    Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 08:54 -0700
      Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 12:13 -0500
        Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 12:31 -0700
          Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 14:41 -0500
            Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 14:39 -0700
              Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 16:44 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 14:58 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 17:16 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 23:00 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-05 04:16 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 08:59 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 08:09 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 13:05 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 22:00 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 06:09 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 08:22 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 14:33 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 13:55 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 16:05 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 14:22 -0700
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-07 11:45 +0200
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-07 04:54 -0700
  Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 10:40 -0500
    Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 09:19 -0700
      Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 12:05 -0500
        Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 10:25 -0700
          Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 15:14 -0500
            Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 20:21 -0700
              Re: Common sense and Great Guru Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-09 03:51 -0700
              Re: Common sense and Great Guru Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 07:46 -0500
                Re: Common sense and Great Guru mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-09 06:06 -0700

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