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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #57621

Re: High level language for writing Forth

From Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: High level language for writing Forth
Date 2017-04-19 20:33 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <od92us$tpt$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <od8rt0$k9b$1@dont-email.me> <xn0koxy4u878k48008@nntp.aioe.org> <WoudnXZ88498nmXFnZ2dnUU7-KXNnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On 4/19/2017 7:42 PM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 4/19/17 2:24 PM, Rudy Velthuis wrote:
>> Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>
>>> So, does anyone in the group have experience with Go in writing a
>>> Forth compiler or other major software or know of links to someone
>>> else's work on using Go in writing compilers?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> I assume that most Forths are either built with a core of assembler and
>> the rest in Forth itself, or with a core of C and the rest in Forth
>> itself. Those with an assembler core might even use Forth to assemble
>> that core.
> 
> Since its founding in 1973, FORTH, Inc. has only had Forths written in 
> Forth (that is, with an assembler for the target processor written in 
> Forth and used to construct primitives). When writing the assembler for 
> a new target processor, we can optimize the use of registers and other 
> resources, a freedom you don't get using another high-level language, so 
> the result is a great deal more efficient.
> 
>> But there is no reason that it could not be built in Golang, or Python
>> or Javascript (ECMAScript), or whatever.
> 
> Yes, but there are a lot of Forth features that are actually easier to 
> program in assembler than in other HLLs. We often see here people 
> posting tortuous C versions of things that take only two or three 
> instructions. And the results are always a lot slower.
> 
> Cheers,
> Elizabeth
> 
There are a couple of reasons for this exercise, one would be to create 
an easily portable Forth that could easily be moved to other CPUs, that 
rules out Assembler.

Only the Forth VM is written is C or Go or something else, the bulk 
would be written in Forth itself to also make it easy to move to another 
CPU. A third reason is to end up with a system that is simple to 
understand, I own copies of both SwiftForth and MPE professional 
compilers and they are horribly complicated, a lot more so when compared 
to software like eForth, I want to keep the whole thing simple like eForth.

The whole thing will not be as efficient as I would like but I like to 
play a lot with FPGAs and with a CPU of my own creation there would be 
basically no tools available so the software I use to deal with custom 
CPUs would need to be basically simple to change. This is the driving 
force behind this project.

Forth would be a choice way up on the list of possibilities as writing 
an assembler is pretty easy in Forth and so would a lot of other 
features. It would need to be a Forth that generates stand alone code, 
but there are plenty of those.

The main reason to try Go would be to become more familiar with the 
language, it also has a lot of features frowned up by the Forth 
community so there are few decent libraries available like there would 
be for Go.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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Thread

High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 18:32 -0500
  Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 00:24 +0000
    Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 14:42 -1000
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 20:33 -0500
        Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 16:21 -1000
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 19:41 -0700
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 23:28 -0500
      Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 17:02 +0000
        Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-20 09:48 -1000
          Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 09:42 +0000
            Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 09:07 -0500
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 17:04 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 11:17 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 17:36 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:32 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 15:35 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:39 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 22:47 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:29 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 22:45 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:49 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 10:54 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 03:04 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-22 05:12 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 04:30 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 05:00 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 05:40 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 16:51 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-22 13:36 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 22:59 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-22 18:43 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-23 09:33 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:23 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 04:59 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:05 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-29 09:35 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 12:56 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:08 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 09:46 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 02:45 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-29 13:44 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 07:00 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-29 07:31 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 16:38 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 04:10 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 11:35 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 16:33 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-05 15:24 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 20:16 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-05 22:06 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:45 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:54 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-06 10:06 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 13:09 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-06 11:04 +0000
              Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:28 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-21 12:27 -1000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:55 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 02:01 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:58 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-21 23:41 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 22:15 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-06 13:28 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:51 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-27 12:09 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 02:48 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:09 +0000
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 20:11 -0500
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 19:34 -0700
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 23:22 -0500
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 21:35 -0700
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-04-20 05:12 +0000
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-20 01:15 -0500
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 23:25 -0700
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-21 23:12 -0500
            Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-21 21:53 -0700
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 00:42 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-21 23:44 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 03:08 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-22 04:39 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 12:37 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:33 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 14:10 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 15:01 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 23:38 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 16:30 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 18:01 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-23 09:25 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:32 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 07:36 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-24 14:32 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 18:19 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 18:05 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 21:51 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:54 +0300
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-23 09:16 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 18:41 +0300
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-24 14:35 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:15 -0700
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 08:04 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:44 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 12:16 -0700
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-22 22:52 -0400
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 07:49 +0300
    Re: High level language for writing Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-20 19:47 +0200
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-20 15:19 -0500
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-20 08:06 +0200
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 04:35 -0700
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 17:03 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-26 01:58 -0700
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 17:36 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 18:37 -0700
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 20:52 -0500
        Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 19:25 -0700
          Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:44 -0700
            Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 17:27 -0500
              Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 19:43 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 23:55 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 01:59 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 23:58 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 07:00 -0700
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 12:05 -0500

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