Re: High level language for writing Forth

From	Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: High level language for writing Forth
Date	2017-04-21 23:12 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<odel20$d4f$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<od8rt0$k9b$1@dont-email.me> <87efwneria.fsf@nightsong.com> <od9cs5$l37$1@dont-email.me> <8760hzelwb.fsf@nightsong.com> <od9jg0$4ej$1@dont-email.me>

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On 4/20/2017 1:15 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 4/19/2017 11:35 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>> I thought the idea was to write the VM (a simple program, look at the
>> manu implementations of the Retroforth Ngaro VM) in a low level language
>> like C, but you wanted to use something higher level to write the
>> compiler.  Anyway, even in Python I bet the Forth VM would run much
>> faster on a modern PC than carefully tuned native Forth compilers did on
>> 1980s computers.
>>
>>> I will still want to learn Go as I will use it in many other projects,
>>
>> Fair enough.
>>
>>> I bought a Hobby copy of 8th... it doesn't have support for MySQL
>>
>> Hmm, maybe you could connect it up to an external MySQL client or
>> library.
>>
> 
> Do you have a MySQL implementation for 8th or for something else that 
> could be adapted?
> 
> The VM implements anywhere for 60 to 100 primitives, the code to run 
> words from the dictionary, do I/O, and handle the stacks, the rest is 
> implemented in Forth Word tokens that the VM can execute.
> 
> The instructions of the VM are one byte tokens that are executed by the 
> VM core. Several hundred words are added for the VM to execute that 
> create a compile/interpreter/assembler.
> 
> The system will vary depending on what language I use and it will 
> determine if the target system is a complete Forth on board or just a 
> tethered system that gets its running code from the PC host. It could be 
> done in several different ways. For some targets that are used often the 
> the target VM could be written in assembler for speed after a while.
> 
> What I'm currently using is a special version of eForth, it creates a 
> target image with a meta-compiler, and it works quite well, it allows 
> for eForth to be resident on the target CPU, there is really not much 
> wrong with it but I want to write my own from scratch as a learning 
> exercise.
> 
> Tomorrow evening I will do some research and some simple test programs 
> with Go and pointers, and arrays that will determine which way to 
> proceed from here.
> 
> 
Go for creating a Forth VM is off the table for now, Go flunked my test 
of pointers to create stacks.

  You cannot use a pointer to go through an array of data by using 
increment, and decrement operation on the pointer like you can in C. 
Pointers in Go are basically used to pass data around without copying it 
but you can't use pointer arithmetic in any fashion including increment 
and decrement operators.

  In C it's easy to create a stack by having a pointer to an array of 
data, read the data and increment the pointer is a pop, increment the 
pointer and write the data is a push.  That can be very efficient as 
increment or decrement of a pointer is a fast instruction. In Go I can 
do it by incrementing or decrementing an index into an array but the 
address calculations are not as fast, it could be close to the same but 
I can't see the generated code to be able to tell one way or the other. 
I can see their point of limiting pointers for safety reasons, in C one 
needs to add code to check and make sure the pointers stay pointing 
within the array but the same applies to using an array index, one needs 
to make sure the index is valid.

So its back to using C for now and finish what I started, I'm pretty 
close anyway with the C code to start testing the VM.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

Thread

High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 18:32 -0500
  Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 00:24 +0000
    Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 14:42 -1000
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 20:33 -0500
        Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 16:21 -1000
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 19:41 -0700
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 23:28 -0500
      Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 17:02 +0000
        Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-20 09:48 -1000
          Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 09:42 +0000
            Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 09:07 -0500
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 17:04 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 11:17 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 17:36 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:32 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 15:35 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:39 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 22:47 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:29 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 22:45 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:49 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 10:54 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 03:04 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-22 05:12 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 04:30 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 05:00 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 05:40 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 16:51 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-22 13:36 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 22:59 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-22 18:43 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-23 09:33 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:23 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 04:59 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:05 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-29 09:35 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 12:56 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:08 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 09:46 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 02:45 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-29 13:44 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 07:00 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-29 07:31 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 16:38 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 04:10 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 11:35 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 16:33 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-05 15:24 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 20:16 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-05 22:06 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:45 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:54 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-06 10:06 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 13:09 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-06 11:04 +0000
              Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:28 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-21 12:27 -1000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:55 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 02:01 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:58 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-21 23:41 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 22:15 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-06 13:28 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:51 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-27 12:09 +0200
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 02:48 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:09 +0000
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 20:11 -0500
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 19:34 -0700
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 23:22 -0500
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 21:35 -0700
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-04-20 05:12 +0000
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-20 01:15 -0500
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 23:25 -0700
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-21 23:12 -0500
            Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-21 21:53 -0700
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 00:42 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-21 23:44 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 03:08 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-22 04:39 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 12:37 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:33 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 14:10 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 15:01 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 23:38 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 16:30 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 18:01 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-23 09:25 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:32 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 07:36 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-24 14:32 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 18:19 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 18:05 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 21:51 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:54 +0300
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-23 09:16 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 18:41 +0300
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-24 14:35 +0100
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:15 -0700
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 08:04 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:44 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 12:16 -0700
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-22 22:52 -0400
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 07:49 +0300
    Re: High level language for writing Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-20 19:47 +0200
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-20 15:19 -0500
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-20 08:06 +0200
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 04:35 -0700
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 17:03 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-26 01:58 -0700
  Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 17:36 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 18:37 -0700
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 20:52 -0500
        Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 19:25 -0700
          Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:44 -0700
            Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 17:27 -0500
              Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 19:43 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 23:55 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 01:59 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 23:58 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 07:00 -0700
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 12:05 -0500

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