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Groups > comp.lang.c > #106475
| From | BartC <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Array allocated on stack or heap |
| Date | 2017-03-19 12:12 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <oalsds$83n$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <faad0787-be77-4403-a140-0a42613df92b@googlegroups.com> <oahe6s$1b6$1@dont-email.me> <oahf4s$55b$1@dont-email.me> <oahqce$fhe$1@dont-email.me> <oalpv8$v3o$1@dont-email.me> |
On 19/03/2017 11:30, David Brown wrote:
> On 18/03/17 00:12, jacobnavia wrote:
> These "weird, small circuits" are the dominant type of processor. There
> are vastly more small, limited microcontrollers around than x86 or PPC
> processors.
>
> I am happy to agree that most C programmers will deal only with systems
> that have a single simple stack (per thread). I just like to make it
> clear that this is not the only way C is implemented - there are very
> common, real-world C implementations that have no stack or make minimal
> use of a stack. This is not just a hypothetical case, or very rare or
> unusual devices.
This has been discussed a few times but is it right that a language like
C should be permanently crippled, so that it can continue to work on
these tiny or oddball processors that can barely be termed computers. Or
should it be split?
That is, allow a streamlined version that is designed to work on what
most people think of as a computer.
Take the basic types for example:
In Java, the types {byte, short, int, long} have widths {8, 16, 32, 64}.
In C#, the types {sbyte, short, int, long} have widths {8, 16, 32, 64}.
In Rust, they seem to be {i8, i16, i32, i64} (you can guess the widths).
In Go, they are {int8, int16, int32, int64}.
There's a common pattern. Now look at the types in C:
{char, short, int, long, long long}
For a start, there are five instead of four! Now for the widths (not
checked, but you get the picture):
{ at least 8, but no longer than the width of short,
at least 16 but not longer than int,
at least 16 but not longer than long,
at least 32 but not longer than long long
at least 64}
Plus the fact that all types are signed, except for char which may be
signed OR unsigned, a fact you might not even know.
Anyone notice an obvious way that this mess could be tidied up?
And yes I know about the attempt to superimpose a more modern set of
four types onto those five using: {int8_t, int16_t, int32_t, int64_t}
with widths, if you are lucky, of {8, 16, 32, 64}.
But that doesn't really cut it. For one thing, programs still use 'int'
everywhere, whose width is not fixed. They still use 'char' of unknown
signedness. Programs also tend to use 'size_t', whose size might be 32
or 64, or maybe something else, and which is /probably/ unsigned (I'd
need to check that).
Then there are still issues with the widths of float, double and long
double. Plus the hoops to jump through to be able to print an intN_t type.
If the ties to the old C that has to work on everything are cut, then a
lot of things not just types could be tidied up.
--
bartc
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Array allocated on stack or heap Prashant Shah <pshah.mumbai@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 22:58 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2017-03-16 23:57 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-17 12:44 -0500
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-17 11:26 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-17 20:38 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-17 16:08 -0400
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-18 00:03 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-17 20:54 -0400
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 12:15 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-17 20:22 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-17 20:45 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-17 12:59 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-17 21:01 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-18 00:12 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-17 16:25 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-17 17:08 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-03-17 17:37 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-19 12:30 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 12:12 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-19 13:52 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 16:51 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-20 10:44 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-20 12:01 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 06:02 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 14:54 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 07:28 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-20 16:43 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-20 09:02 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-21 10:11 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 02:48 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-21 08:19 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-21 08:17 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-21 09:06 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-21 17:32 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 15:14 -0500
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-03-25 16:05 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 23:53 -0500
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-26 12:30 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-26 14:09 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-26 22:17 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-26 21:52 -0500
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 13:06 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 10:10 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 15:56 -0500
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 22:48 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 19:58 -0500
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 14:56 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-20 15:34 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-20 09:28 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap bart4858@gmail.com - 2017-03-20 13:05 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-20 13:53 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-20 14:26 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-20 22:24 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-20 15:44 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 02:44 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-21 11:15 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-21 11:12 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 04:23 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-21 13:13 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-21 13:38 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-21 15:33 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 07:38 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 07:35 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-21 15:09 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-19 13:05 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 13:27 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 14:26 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-19 13:34 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 14:35 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-19 13:36 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 14:00 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-19 19:00 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 19:24 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-20 08:45 +1300
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-19 14:32 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-20 16:16 +1300
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 18:58 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-24 09:17 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-19 20:50 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 14:10 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 13:38 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 14:49 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 07:59 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-19 10:57 -0400
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 16:14 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-19 15:53 -0400
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 20:37 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-03-19 23:09 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 22:38 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-03-19 16:21 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-20 16:18 +1300
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-20 11:06 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-20 11:00 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-19 08:53 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-17 16:11 -0400
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-17 13:35 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 14:00 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-17 23:57 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-18 12:42 +1300
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-18 00:45 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 14:17 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-19 19:21 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2017-03-19 15:00 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-19 22:16 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-19 23:57 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-19 16:15 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-20 12:24 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-20 13:24 +0000
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-19 13:21 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 14:30 -0700
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-17 23:59 +0100
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-17 21:02 -0400
Re: Array allocated on stack or heap David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-19 13:26 +0100
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