Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #409381

Re: Measuring time and light

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Measuring time and light
Date 2017-02-15 14:58 -0600
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <o82fcn$1eq4$4@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <bd0f7974-e47a-4c1f-bfd2-868ff05e4e53@googlegroups.com> <3855bedb-4983-43db-a877-841f74d13fe8@googlegroups.com> <9a02846e-6f4d-4265-9569-6331578e21f8@googlegroups.com> <o7vuag$qgq$1@gioia.aioe.org> <9602395e-72e1-41e1-b827-5e6248214e92@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On 2/15/2017 9:10 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 3:54:28 PM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/14/2017 3:10 PM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>> The problem is: for over 110 years many in the physics community have been MISINTERPRETING Einstein's theories
>>
>> Ed, here is what Einstein wrote about the subject of light's incoming
>> speed being independent of the observer. This is from chapter 7 of his
>> popular book on Relativy, the Special and General Theories:
>> ====================================================================
>> Of course we must refer the process of the propagation of light (and
>> indeed every other process) to a rigid reference-body (co-ordinate
>> system). As such a system let us again choose our embankment. We shall
>> imagine the air above it to have been removed. If a ray of light be sent
>> along the embankment, we see from the above that the tip of the ray will
>> be transmitted with the velocity c relative to the embankment. Now let
>> us suppose that our railway carriage is again travelling along the
>> railway lines with the velocity v, and that its direction is the same as
>> that of the ray of light, but its velocity of course much less. Let us
>> inquire about the velocity of propagation of the ray of light relative
>> to the carriage. It is obvious that we can here apply the consideration
>> of the previous section, since the ray of light plays the part of the
>> man walking along relatively to the carriage. The velocity W of the man
>> relative to the embankment is here replaced by the velocity of light
>> relative to the embankment. w is the required velocity of light with
>> respect to the carriage, and we have
>> w = c - v.
>> The velocity of propagation of a ray of light relative to the carriage
>> thus comes out smaller than c.	
>>    But this result comes into conflict with the principle of relativity
>> set forth in Section V. For, like every other general law of nature, the
>> law of the transmission of light in vacuo must, according to the
>> principle of relativity, be the same for the railway carriage as
>> reference-body as when the rails are the body of reference.
>> =================================================================
>>
>> In case you found this hard to understand, he is saying that the speed
>> of the same ray of light is the SAME for the embankment observer as it
>> is for the carriage observer, even though the *expectation* is that it
>> will be less for the light coming into the carriage observer w = c - v.
>>
>
> No, he is NOT.  He is just laying the groundwork for resolving the "apparent conflict"
> between "the principle of relativity" and "the law of propagation of light in vacuo."
> I have a copy of the book in my computer.  On later pages he explains how it can APPEAR
> from one perspective (or frame of reference) that there is a conflict, but if you truly
> understand relativity, there is no conflict.  And it all leads into the next chapter:
> "On the Idea of Time in Physics."

You seem to have difficulty understanding what you are reading.
What he says above is that the principle of relativity insists that the 
speed of the light ray is c for the carriage observer, and the speed of 
the same light ray is c for the embankment observer. That is, the speed 
of the same light is the SAME regardless of the motion of the observers.

What he also says above is that there APPEARS to be a conflict with what 
this principle insists is true and our expectations that the speed 
should be w=c-v. But, as he promises, this conflict will be resolved. It 
will be resolved, as you will read later, by noting that the way to 
combine the speeds is not by w = c-v at all. In fact, the proper way to 
form the composition of speeds is what's in his 1905 paper, which you 
did not read until I pointed out to you. When I did this, you declared 
that this result BY EINSTEIN looked like garbage-in, garbage-out 
mathematics. And in the same breath you say that you BELIEVE Einstein's 
statements but think they have been misinterpreted. How do you think 
Einstein's result on the composition of velocities is BEING 
MISINTERPRETED, Ed?

>
> And time dilation is what it is all about.  You see one thing, I see
> something else, but neither is incorrect.  We just experience time
> passing at a different rate due to time dilation.  He then goes into
> "The Relativity of Simulatneity."  And in that he chapter says,
>
> "Are two events (e.g. the two strokes of lightning A and B) which are
> simultaneous with reference to the railway embankment also simultaneous
> relatively to the train?  We shall show directly that the answer must be in the negative."

Right! And in an earlier conversation you declared that what is 
simultaneous in two one observer must also be simultaneous to other 
observers! And you say that physicists have MISINTERPRETED what Einstein 
said? Who is doing the misinterpretation, Ed? It's YOU!

>
> It's all very complicated and Einstein seems to explain it in the most complicated
> manner imaginable.  But, when simplified, it is exactly what I have been saying.

It's not complicated, Ed. He's explaining it in a way that would be 
understandable to a barmaid.

What he is pointing out is that what is simultaneous in one frame will 
not be simultaneous in another frame. Two clocks that are synchronized 
in one frame will NOT by synchronized in another frame.

>
>> When you claim that Einstein NEVER SAID that the speed of light relative
>> to the observer did not vary with the motion of the observer, you are
>> FLAT WRONG. You just didn't read enough of what Einstein said.
>>
>> Now that it is clear that the one who is misinterpreting Einstein's
>> theory is YOU, what now?
>
> Now I think it is time for you to try to explain things in your on words
> instead of referring to books and papers you do not understand and CLAIMING that
> they somehow support your BELIEFS.

I think what you are starting to come to realize is that you do not 
understand the simple language that Einstein used to explain relativity 
to a barmaid, and you are now appealing to me to explain it to you in a 
way that even you (let alone a barmaid) will understand.

What I'm telling you is that you have overshot and you need to go back 
and learn some BASIC physics, under and prior to relativity. You do not 
even understand the physics of Galileo and Newton from 400 years back.

I don't care that you don't WANT to do that. What I'm telling you is 
that you are obviously having difficulty understanding the basics of 
relativity, and this is because you don't understand the basics PRIOR TO 
relativity, and there is no way to perform a shortcut.

>
> Ed
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 09:28 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:47 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 18:28 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:53 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 12:41 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 13:37 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-09 14:40 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 15:00 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-10 00:30 +0100
          Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 06:44 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 11:03 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 12:50 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 13:51 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:09 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 08:37 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 20:43 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:44 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 07:51 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:39 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:34 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:07 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:39 -0600
            Re: Measuring time and light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:22 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 12:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 13:50 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 13:58 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 14:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 14:26 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 14:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 16:30 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-15 06:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 06:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 16:06 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-15 17:48 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-15 07:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 09:53 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:12 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-12 06:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:06 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 07:35 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 07:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:18 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:29 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:35 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 08:55 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 12:36 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 21:57 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 22:36 +0100
            Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:37 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:43 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:58 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 08:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 08:34 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 09:22 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 07:44 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:49 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 11:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 21:17 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 13:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:28 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 23:59 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 06:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 13:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-16 22:23 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:55 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:35 +0100
        Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 18:39 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-09 23:35 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 11:45 +0100
              Re: Measuring time and light Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-10 11:57 +0000
              Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-10 04:04 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-10 12:13 +0000
      Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 18:33 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
        Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:47 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 16:24 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:26 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:43 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 09:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:43 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 06:48 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:04 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 07:42 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:46 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-14 08:28 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 08:46 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 09:22 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 09:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 09:52 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 12:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:05 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-15 06:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:07 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:22 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 13:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:54 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-15 07:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 14:58 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 07:04 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:26 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:32 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:34 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-17 06:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:11 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-17 14:48 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:10 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-18 13:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:08 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 07:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:24 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 08:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 18:23 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 12:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 13:34 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 13:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-18 14:48 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 06:06 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-18 14:10 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 07:51 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-18 18:00 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 10:12 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:19 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-18 19:55 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 12:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:07 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 15:07 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:52 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-19 09:15 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 06:28 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 08:16 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 07:42 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemoveandReplaceATkevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-02-19 16:54 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 09:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 18:16 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 09:39 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 18:52 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 10:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 19:43 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 19:51 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 10:55 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 11:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 20:13 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:09 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-17 22:22 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 22:58 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-17 14:29 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-17 22:36 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 12:20 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 13:32 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 13:58 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 14:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 23:54 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 15:02 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-18 00:22 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 18:59 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 21:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 08:50 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 09:15 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:04 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:56 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 07:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:27 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:59 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 08:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 09:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 12:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 09:39 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:46 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:10 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-02-18 20:30 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 08:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-17 20:25 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 09:20 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:38 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 09:52 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:01 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:54 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 10:08 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:17 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 10:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:20 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 14:39 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-02-18 15:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:35 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-02-18 15:44 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:02 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-02-18 16:16 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:59 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 08:38 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 09:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 09:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:06 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:01 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:15 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 08:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:10 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:54 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:35 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 13:32 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:39 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:47 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 18:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 08:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 09:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 19:21 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 12:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 21:58 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:03 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-16 23:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:16 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 14:34 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 23:41 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-16 23:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 12:00 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 13:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:41 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 14:12 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 23:28 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:09 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:19 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:39 -0600
            Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:46 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:42 -0600
  Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 12:34 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 11:24 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 13:01 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 13:05 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:46 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:30 -0600
        Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 06:46 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 08:56 -0600
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 13:56 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 14:03 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 14:59 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:52 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 08:08 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 06:55 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:05 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 07:31 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 11:18 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 07:52 -0600
          Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:34 -0600
        Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:07 -0600
  Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 13:43 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 14:17 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:32 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 16:16 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-16 20:00 -0500

csiph-web